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I can't remember the last time I've had more than 3 drinks in a day, but I have been falling-down drunk many times in my younger days (not necessarily proud of it), and I've even been in arguments and fights when drinking....but I've never been motivated to kill anyone.....
Sometimes they say that a drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts, so the fact that there were racial overtones to this murder probably means that these boys harbored some strong racist feelings, even when sober.
I can cite too many things to count, but I've seen what impact alcohol has on people and violence. I would doubt this would have happened if they were not drinking. I'm not excusing their behavior at all, quite the opposite. It's another example of what alcohol and drugs do to society.
For what it's worth, each successive generation is becoming more and more tolerant and accepting of differences in others. While those in my parents' generation (fifty-somethings/Baby Boomers) are often overhead whispering racial slurs to me about other patrons when I'm assisting them at work in hopes of eliciting a "laugh," I see many of my Generation X peers in interracial relationships, homosexual relationships, etc., and their friends couldn't care less. When I came out in high school I nearly passed out from fear that I'd be shoved into a locker, have my car vandalized, or be the new punching bag for the football team in the locker room. Instead my popularity actually grew as I won a class poll and became invited to parties for the "popular" kids. It is now apparently fashionable to have a "gay friend," much as people like to consider themselves to be new age by having bohemian hipster friends. I have a number of African-American friends myself, none of whom live up to that "clutch your purse more tightly" stereotype.
Those of us in Generation X have been called the "me" generation, but when I look at all of the Baby Boomers living in their ostentatious, energy-inefficient McMansions in the suburbs, driving large SUVs, causing our nation's health care crisis to worsen as many of their waistlines mushroom due to gluttony, etc., I wonder how we could be considered more "selfish" than many of them who condone conspicuous consumption (how's that for alliteration?) I'd much rather be a socially liberal and tolerant "gimme" person than an "enlightened" fifty-something who tosses around racial slurs and forms protests at Wilkes-Barre's PrideFest celebrations.
Doesn't seem you are too tolerant of those baby boomers and their McMansions and how they live, right or wrong or what they protest. You've broke your own rule.
I've known a few "socially liberal" people in my time and they are the most hypocritical and intolerable people I've known.
I think it's all this "diversity" and reverse discrimination that goes on that continues to foment racism. Everyone should be looked at as an American, not african american, italian american, hispanic american, whatever. You're an American! 40+ years ago MLK wanted blacks to be integrated into society as full citizens. The government and the people wanted to do that and found ways to do so. Now all these years later you have clowns like jesse jackson and al sharpton that discriminate now against whites and continue to keep the whole ball rolling. The more people you split into groups the more problems you cause.
Those of us in Generation X have been called the "me" generation, but when I look at all of the Baby Boomers living in their ostentatious, energy-inefficient McMansions in the suburbs, driving large SUVs, causing our nation's health care crisis to worsen as many of their waistlines mushroom due to gluttony, etc., I wonder how we could be considered more "selfish" than many of them who condone conspicuous consumption (how's that for alliteration?) I'd much rather be a socially liberal and tolerant "gimme" person than an "enlightened" fifty-something who tosses around racial slurs and forms protests at Wilkes-Barre's PrideFest celebrations.
In a very general sense this statement contains some truth. Let me remind you however, that not all baby boomers are:
living in their ostentatious, energy-inefficient McMansions in the suburbs, driving large SUVs, causing our nation's health care crisis to worsen as many of their waistlines mushroom due to gluttony, etc.,
Speaking for myself, I'm living in a 1950 sf energy efficient home on the edge of town, built in 1980. My wife drives a VW Golf ( which we use most of the time ) and I drive a Mazda 626 about 80 miles a week. We are both 2 of the fittest 50 somethings you are likely to encounter. My wife maintains fitness via Yoga, and I maintain my fitness level via weight training ( most 20, 30, and 40 somethings would be hard pressed to keep up with me ). I also walk at least 5 miles a day, rain or shine, hot or cold. I have not been to a doctor in more than 20 years, and that was for a tetnus shot and stitches for a dog bite. We are both social liberals ( or hypocritical and intolerable people as wanneroo says ), and I am a fiscal conservative. Even though my wife loves to spend money, we manage to live well within our means. I'm sure we have some hidden, unresolved prejudices ( who doesnt? ), but we are mostly very open minded people. There are millions of other baby boomers very similar to us.
I tip my cap to Generation X. Speaking generally, I think you guys are doing a better job with the racial prejudice issue than we boomers have done. However, that is certainly not the case for every member of Generation X.
Last edited by CosmicWizard; 08-21-2008 at 10:31 AM..
I think it's all this "diversity" and reverse discrimination that goes on that continues to foment racism..
Two things here:
(1) "Reverse discrimination," that is to say, illegal discrimination by minorities against whites, certainly is the flip-side of the racism coin. I'll give you that. But let's not aggrandize how much that actually happens. It's an extreme minority of discrimination cases in terms of the number of complaints lodged with our state anti-discrimination agency and the number of cases where liability was actually found.
(2) And of all things, how does diversity "foment racism?"
What do you mean exactly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo
Everyone should be looked at as an American, not african american, italian american, hispanic american, whatever. You're an American! 40+ years ago MLK wanted blacks to be integrated into society as full citizens. The government and the people wanted to do that and found ways to do so. ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by wanneroo
The more people you split into groups the more problems you cause.
This is highly reductionist.
As Americans, we are united by many things, not least important of which are our varied cultural and ethnic backgrounds as expressed in our different foods, music, literature, art, and so on. Preserving your cultural identity, whether it's Italian, Mexican, Polish, or whatnot, is absolutely good.
Scrantonians of all stripes come out for the Italian Festival or for the Parade Day festivities. Luzerne County is the only majority-Polish county in the nation and many of its church picnics reflect that cultural heritage in their food.
I proudly self-identify as an Italian-American- as half Sicilian even.
I call it the divide and conquer game. People divide others into groups and then pit another against another under the guise of "diversity".
I respect my heritage and I'm sure others do as well. I think it's a great thing, but if you are not a dual citizen in Italy you are not an italian american in my eyes. You're an American.
Anti-Hispanic bigotry is nothing new to NEPA. When I grew up in the WB/Scranton area in the 70's and 80's, I experienced it on a daily basis. The older I got, the worse it got, even becoming very, very violent (I was beaten numerous times while attending high school). What I really, really couldn't understand about all of it--aside from the stupidity of the bigotry in general--was that I was born and reared in the NEPA area. And if you spoke to me, you would never know that I was Hispanic. People would be okay to me, and then once they found out my last name, it all changed.
In high school, aside from the beatings, I had people throw unopened cans of soda at me from their cars (along with perfectly good pens, pencils, and the odd empty bottle). At night, people would make threatening phone calls to our house. I never could understand why it happened. I didn't insult, bully, or attack anyone. In fact, I would keep to myself, and that became steadily worse as I simply stayed home because I didn't want to walk the streets. My high school years--supposedly the best years of one's life--were an utter nightmare. All I wanted to do was lock myself in my room and even contemplated dropping out of high school and running away.
I didn't attend my high school graduation. I wanted nothing to do with those people, and it took years for the hate to burn away.
I don't know if it'll change. I've often debated going back to NEPA. I miss the autumns, the quiet towns, the rolling hills, the Old Forge pizza. But then a memory pops into my head, like the time a pretty girl whom I'd had a crush on in high school (she didn't know it), simply turned around one day in class and called me a "sp!c" so she and her pals could have a good laugh. Then the desire to visit NEPA fades away.
Doesn't seem you are too tolerant of those baby boomers and their McMansions and how they live, right or wrong or what they protest. You've broke your own rule.
I've known a few "socially liberal" people in my time and they are the most hypocritical and intolerable people I've known.
I think it's all this "diversity" and reverse discrimination that goes on that continues to foment racism. Everyone should be looked at as an American, not african american, italian american, hispanic american, whatever. You're an American! 40+ years ago MLK wanted blacks to be integrated into society as full citizens. The government and the people wanted to do that and found ways to do so. Now all these years later you have clowns like jesse jackson and al sharpton that discriminate now against whites and continue to keep the whole ball rolling. The more people you split into groups the more problems you cause.
Good post. I totally agree. I'm so sick of these politically correct liberals labeling people, "this american" and "that american". I never understood or took seriously why black people wanted to be called "African Americans" anyway. Africa is not a country, it's a continent. Most of our ancestors are from Europe. I do not wish to be called a "European American" because I'm not. I'm an American, plain and simple. And don't get me started on Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They don't care about the advancement of black people, all they care about is exposure and getting more power. I always wondered how these two clowns made their living. Any little thing that a white person says that remotely sounds like black bashing, these two idiots point it out and make a federal case of it. Don't they think black people have minds of their owns and don't need two self-serving jackasses to tell them what to do and how to live their lives. I'm no fan of Don Imus, but that incident was blown way out of proportion. If Sharpton never pointed out what Imus said, it never would of been a big deal, thus he wouldn't get national media attention and headlines. It's all a big joke and like you said, it's "reverse discrimination. If a black guy uttered those words, Sharpton and Jackson wouldn't have batted an eye. It's OK when one of their own does it, but if a white guy does it watch out, you're automatically labeled a racist.
Good post. I totally agree. I'm so sick of these politically correct liberals labeling people, "this american" and "that american". I never understood or took seriously why black people wanted to be called "African Americans" anyway. Africa is not a country, it's a continent. Most of our ancestors are from Europe. I do not wish to be called a "European American" because I'm not. I'm an American, plain and simple. And don't get me started on Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They don't care about the advancement of black people, all they care about is exposure and getting more power. I always wondered how these two clowns made their living. Any little thing that a white person says that remotely sounds like black bashing, these two idiots point it out and make a federal case of it. Don't they think black people have minds of their owns and don't need two self-serving jackasses to tell them what to do and how to live their lives. I'm no fan of Don Imus, but that incident was blown way out of proportion. If Sharpton never pointed out what Imus said, it never would of been a big deal, thus he wouldn't get national media attention and headlines. It's all a big joke and like you said, it's "reverse discrimination. If a black guy uttered those words, Sharpton and Jackson wouldn't have batted an eye. It's OK when one of their own does it, but if a white guy does it watch out, you're automatically labeled a racist.
Oh, cry me a river.
There's nothing more annoying than white people with a victim complex and a distorted sense of equivalency. This is a thread about the horrible murder of a hispanic man by racist white teenagers, and you guys have the temerity to complain about how you can't say racist things in the media anymore and how two civil rights leaders may also care about their own profile. Boo hoo.
Or maybe these youths who also happened to be drunk are just trash to begin with. Maybe they let their ignorance out of the bottle for the night and it has nothing to do with PA as a whole. Your average PA citizen does not share their beliefs or attitudes so to say its a community problem is absurd. Now if we say its that their families are the trash and the problem that would be a bit more accurate. Don't lump us all into this mess. I am married to a Thai immigrant and we are treated very well within our community.
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I'd much rather be a socially liberal and tolerant "gimme" person than an "enlightened" fifty-something who tosses around racial slurs and forms protests at Wilkes-Barre's PrideFest celebrations. 
I'm sure we have some hidden, unresolved prejudices ( who doesnt? ), but we are mostly very open minded people. There are millions of other baby boomers very similar to us.
