Harvey's Lake Seeks Secession From Luzerne County (Philadelphia, Wilkes-Barre: transplants, real estate market)

[W-B proud]

I think the whole property tax thing is backwards and bogus. This is America, peolple should not lose thier homes, because somebody decided thier taxes will raise 400%! Why not tax according to somebody's income, like the income tax. The Welfare system currently takes 30% of a persons income to live in low income housing, why not have a similar system that taxes a % of a persons income so that everyone will have the ability to pay a reasonable fair share? I'm sure people have 1000 reasons not to do it this way, but it has to be better then our current system. You know... people have been waiting and waiting so long for the promised tax relief from the slots casino's, and instead they get thier taxes quadrupled in some cases. I'm secretly praying for a full blown revolt, you know... torches and pitchforks, firebombing the courthouse, a full blown riot in the streets. It really seems like the only thing left that'll send a clear message that WE WILL NOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE!!! Something has to give in Luzerne County, it's complete incompetence and a blatant middle finger to the people. Almost every week there is a new major scandal, and nothing is being done to stop it. It's time to stop grumbling about it at the bar and your local diner, and actually force them to change thier crooked ways, or we will phyisically remove them from the courthouse.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

When contacted by local media, a Wyoming County commissioner was quoted as saying "I'm sure Wyoming County would be happy to have them with their tax base." (Well, duh, since Harvey's Lake is inarguably one of the most affluent communities in the region).

...which is worrisome for Luzerne County. It desperately needs as much money as it can get to support its major cities. Losing Harvey's Lake would set back revitalization efforts big time. What does Wyoming County need? I don't know... a road paved every 20 years or so? A fence mended? Another traffic light for the Super-Dooper-Wal-Mart?

[Rick323]

Originally Posted by FightinPhils

Boo hoo. The rich people in Harvey's Lake are upset that they'll have to pull their weight. What a bunch of whiners. I work next to someone from the Back Mountain who's been complaining about his assessment, crying poverty while they live in a newer home in an affluent area, take all sorts of expensive vacations, all their kids are in private school, their 9 year olds have their own cell phones, drive new vehicles, and he eats out for lunch every single day (that adds up to a lot of money in no time). My heart is not bleeding for those people.

So what you're saying is paying $4000-$6000/year in taxes isn't pulling your weight?

So an average 1800-2000 square foot house on a quarter acre in the Back Mountain/Harvey's Lake should be paying $8000-$12000? Where the same house in Larksville, Ashley, Avoca, or Wilkes-Barre should be paying $800-$1500???

Ya know, not too long ago (until the late 80's) the Back Mountain was still a farming communty; houses and property were relatively cheap. So someone buys a ten year old house in 1985 for $75,000 and now it's worth $500,000-that's some investment.

[SteelCityRising]

Unfortunately, Rick, your home's value is its value, regardless of what county's jurisdiction you are under. A quick real estate search shows that there are currently seven homes on the market in excess of $500,000, with a few of those being in the seven-figure range. Even the Marina Pointe townhomes sell for nearly $300,000, which is comparable to asking prices at other high-end communities like Glenmaura or the upcoming Stauffer Pointe in Pittston Township.

Like it or not your surroundings and your neighbors can infinitely boost your own property value. Once again I reiterate that it is not the county's fault that Harvey's Lake has become a playground for the rich and famous of Luzerne County (and now increasingly NY/NJ). If there's an elderly couple along Lakeside Drive residing in a "cottage" that they've owned since 1950, and if investment bankers from Manhattan purchase the "cottages" on either side of them, tear them down, and throw up ostentatious McMansions that would sell for $1,000,000 each, then naturally the home "stuck in the middle" is going to have its own property value SOAR as well. That's not the county's fault. If you can no longer afford to keep up with the Jones's, then move back to a place like Wilkes-Barre, which would welcome as many new families as possible with open arms. I reside in a relatively upscale subdivision, and while our home is not at all out of the ordinary, our taxes rose quite a bit as well. Unlike the cry babies in Harvey's Lake, we realize that "The Pittstons" have become a hotbed for commuters, and many homes here are now selling for $250,000+. Our home nearly doubled in value from what we purchased it for in the mid-1990s, but by my own real estate expertise the assessment workers were nearly spot-on with our value.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If anyone is to blame for what has happened to the mushrooming property values at Harvey's Lake, it is the very same borough officials who are now leading the movement to secede. Why? They were the ones that approved Marina Pointe. They were the ones that approved and/or oversaw the approval of permits for massive renovations, subdivisions, replacement of cottages with McMansions, etc., all of which contributed to the explosion of taxes at Harvey's Lake. After forty years or so you're all finally paying your FAIR SHARE. Deal with it. Our taxes are going up, as are most others homes in my subdivision. We're not squawking. We realize this is the only FAIR way to do things. For a community that is supposedly as well-educated as Harvey's Lake, I'm really not impressed by the sheer lack of common sense the residents there have. I mean, what happens when Wyoming County, which also uses 21st Century, decides to have a reassessment, and the values come out to be the SAME? Are they going to come crawling back to Luzerne County with their tails between their legs?

[SteelCityRising]

With that being said, can someone please explain to me how a McMansion at the lake currently on the market for $1,800,000 can have annual taxes of just $2,600 when my own family pays much more than that for a home worth a little over $200,000? Our annual taxes, if I'm not mistaken, are in the $3,500 range. Should not a home worth nine times our home be expected to pay nine times our taxes, or roughly $31,500 per year? I suppose this really puts things into perspective when the people from Scranton start whining about their "high" property taxes of perhaps $1,500 or so on most homes when they're facing child's play in comparison to Luzerne County.

Yet another prime example of the cry babies at Harvey's Lake not paying their fair share---another home on the market for $1,850,000 has annual taxes of just over $7,000. You chose to live in a very affluent suburb. Now pay the price.

[SifuPhil]

Originally Posted by W-B proud

I'm secretly praying for a full blown revolt, you know... torches and pitchforks, firebombing the courthouse, a full blown riot in the streets. It really seems like the only thing left that'll send a clear message that WE WILL NOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE!!! Something has to give in Luzerne County, it's complete incompetence and a blatant middle finger to the people. Almost every week there is a new major scandal, and nothing is being done to stop it. It's time to stop grumbling about it at the bar and your local diner, and actually force them to change thier crooked ways, or we will phyisically remove them from the courthouse.

Do you truly believe that, as long as there's a game or sitcom on cable, people are going to get off their fat butts and revolt? Do you think they're going to interrupt their comfy existence for an unsure one - even if freedom from oppression is the end result? I don't see Mel Gibson waiting for us with his face painted blue...

No...people - let me correct that - sheeple - are born and bred to be led. They're taught from birth to respect authority figures, and guess who's behind all this?

And even if you DID, by some unbelievable miracle, pull off such a coup while simultaneously avoiding the local and state cops, National Guard and US military, what do you think would happen? Would you victorious rebels then elect one of your own to lead you? Mistake. You're just starting the cycle all over again. "Your own" becomes "one of them" as soon as they get a glimpse of all that money and power.

Your only alternatives, as I see it:

• Move to a country that is citizen-friendly
• Move to a totally wild, uninhabited area and hope you die before society and their big-box stores find you
• Give up and accept things the way they are
• Rant and rave, but still accept things the way they are

[SteelCityRising]

My ultimate solution would be the elimination of property taxes altogether via increasing the sales tax and/or personal income taxes along with trimming the pork from the government's budget.

[cowboyxjon]

i'm a huge supporter of the Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans for Fair Taxation
although i admit that i don't think it addresses property taxes. it has more to do with eliminating payroll and social security taxes, etc., and funding government operations in a different way.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by cowboyxjon

i'm a huge supporter of the Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans for Fair Taxation
although i admit that i don't think it addresses property taxes. it has more to do with eliminating payroll and social security taxes, etc., and funding government operations in a different way.

Are they the ones who have all of the small signs creeping up all over the landscape here in the Wyoming Valley? I see one daily on my commutes on the Exit 4 offramp (Forty Fort/Kingston) off of the Cross-Valley Expressway.

[whatupwiththis]

this living in luzerne county is horrible. when I was a kid and lived in the backmountain, we were called **** kickers, hillbillies, hayseeders, etc. We were looked down on for living in the sticks. Now, it has become THE place to live and it means round up all of the people who have lived their lives in the country and ship them down to the ghettos in wilkes-barre. it's time for a real revolt.