Harvey's Lake Seeks Secession From Luzerne County

[Rick323]

ScranBarre you're right--what was I thinking.

I'll humbly go back to my flock, lest I disagree and be labeled a whiner.

FYI my 912' sq/ft house isn't worth half a million dollars. The example I used was a friend of mine, who doesn't live near Harvey's lake-Franklin Township. My taxes are only $2600/year, now.

Harvey's lake homes have always been expensive (well before 1965)-this is nothing new. You know, back when the train ran from Wilkes-Barre to Hanson's etc.

I hope your parents taxes went down, and thanks for carrying my sorry butt for all these years.

[W-B proud]

Originally Posted by whatupwiththis

this living in luzerne county is horrible. when I was a kid and lived in the backmountain, we were called **** kickers, hillbillies, hayseeders, etc. We were looked down on for living in the sticks. Now, it has become THE place to live and it means round up all of the people who have lived their lives in the country and ship them down to the ghettos in wilkes-barre. it's time for a real revolt.

You said ****kickers!

[gsdperson]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

An official from 21st Century said that Harvey's Lake residents need to realize that their property values have EXPLODED since the last county wide reassessment in the 1960s. I concur. There are many homes out there now on the market currently for the seven-figures. People from NY and NJ have been moving there at a hasty pace in recent years to tear down the lakefront "cottages" and replace them with McMansions. Marina Pointe townhomes sell for an outrageous price, and it was just reported that residents of a mobile home community may soon be evicted to make way for more upscale condos or townhomes. It's amazing to hear people whine "dey said my property values went up tirty times since da '60s." Well, when your lakefront home was valued at $20,000 in 1965, a new adjusted value of $600,000 IS reasonable! Most of those whining are people who moved to Harvey's Lake in the late-1990s with not a penny extra to spare just for the sakees of living on the lake. Now that it comes time to pay the piper they all throw their hands up in the air and whine because they "can't afford it." Too bad. Move back to an urban area like Wilkes-Barre, where most taxes seem to have decreased. Live within your means. I know that means taking less trips to Panera Bread or Starbuck's, trading in the Suburban for a Civic, and gasp...having some RESTRAINT at Lowe's or Home Depot with your credit cards...but so be it.

Naturally there have been some horror stories from the lake about gross inaccuracies like some properties being unfairly valued higher because they were stated as having lakefront property and/or lake access that they really didn't have, but by and large it's just a case of people not wanting to pay their fair share. You're rich. Deal with it.

We've lived out at the lake since 1980, and yes we are fortunate that our home increased in value. We are lakefront, no backyard, side yard, and virtually no front yard. The actual facts as I know them are this:

When we bought our home in 1980 at $60,000 we were overpriced then. We could have bought a lot more property and house in any other area in the back mountain. But because we grew up in the lake area, it was our choice to purchase right on the lake. We are not rich, nor do we overspend. Our house is not a showplace, but a home we have worked on and improved year by year. I now have a home that is approaching "finished", but not "top of the line". Our remodeled kitchen is now 15 years old, with laminate. We have some nicer features, but no way is it a "showplace" or in pristine condition. There are some structural problems, and areas that need attention. When 21st Century comes in and makes a mistake of over $400,000 on our home, then, yes! We are pissed off!! We all expected a raise in taxes, but we also expected their assessments to be close to accurate! No one here is squabbling over a few thousand dollars difference, but as in our case, hundreds of thousands of dollars difference. And you must realize our taxes were not rock bottom before!! For our home, 3000 sq ft home with small, hilly lot, age about 50 years or older, $3400, for past year.

BTW, my appraisal difference is based on a state certified assessor, actually accurately measuring and viewing, our property. This was at a cost ( not deductible from my taxes) of $400.

So if you and everyone else is going to gloat over our "whining" about the reassessment, at least be aware of the facts. My case is similar to the majority of cases of Harveys Lake "whiners".

[SteelCityRising]

The vast majority of those whining out at Harvey's Lake are simply concerned that they won't be able to afford to pay the higher taxes on their new higher assessed values. I can recall one very good quote from Tim Barr, the 21st Century Appraisal representative who is overseeing the Luzerne County reassessment "We can't adjust taxes to what you are able to pay." That's so very true. The Times-Leader (when they're not practically kissing the feet of Mrs. Boice) actually did an interview of a few senior citizens on fixed-incomes at the lake who were boo-hooing that they'd lose their homes. I have a question for them. Let's assume that since 1965 reassessments WERE done every four years, as they SHOULD have been done. Would not their values still have risen to where they are today either way? If you're only making $15,000 per year soaking up social security and have no survivors, then perhaps it's time to move into a NURSING HOME?

Everyone keeps whining "what about the seniors? what about the seniors?" I simply don't understand why PA has to be such a "freebie" state for our senior citizens. Yes, they worked very hard all of their lives. However, they already receive social security (in most cases they're drawing MUCH more than they ever paid in), medicare, LIHEAP, proceeds from lottery ticket sales, homestead tax exemptions, etc., etc. For those of us working nearly full-time whilst attending college full-time where is OUR "breaks?" For people like my parents, both college graduates who are employed full-time at difficult jobs, where are THEIR "breaks?" Senior citizens have it relatively easy here in PA (I forgot to mention that ALL retirement income is not taxable here in PA either). If you saved nothing for your retirement, never had a Roth IRA or 401(k) Plan, etc., then why is that OUR fault? I'm already planning ahead for retirement, and I'm only 21. If I ever become a burden on the community in my old age due to my inability to pay my expenditures I'll humbly suck it up and do whatever it takes to survive on my OWN terms---NOT whine to the media as the senior citizens on "fixed incomes" out at Harvey's Lake have been doing. Guess what? I earn $11/hr. working 30-35 hours per week. That doesn't fluctuate. That's also a "fixed" income. See me whining about it? No.

Like it or not NEPA is becoming a giant exurb of New York City, and our real estate prices are now starting to reflect that (there are currently EIGHT properties at the lake on the market in the $500,000+ range with a couple of them being in the seven-figure range). In many cases your values at Harvey's Lake are so high because the LAND that your "cottages" sit upon is now more valuable than the structures themselves. I'll likely live to see the day when most homes around the lake are newer constructions built atop the sites of smaller cottages (McMansions), largely by empty-nesters retiring from Philadelphia, NJ, and NYC. It's already happening out there. When I visited my friends' lake house for the Fourth of July I actually thought I was in a different state since we were surrounded by out-of-state license plates from all over the place.

Are there some gross injustices that have occurred at Harvey's Lake. You bet. However, my own analysis of my own subdivision in Greater Pittston shows that several homes are likewise grossly overvalued in my humble opinion, and instead of foaming at the mouth, THREATENING WORKERS AT THE PLAINS TOWNSHIP REASSESSMENT OFFICE , crying to the media, etc., they quietly filed appeals and were promptly reviewed. You'd swear that the people at Harvey's Lake were the ONLY ones whose taxes shot up. Our taxes are increasing by $500 per year. We're fine with that. With all of the new transplants pouring into the housing developments and townhouse communities here in Greater Pittston $208,000 is a bargain for a home like ours. I'd have to guess that many of the people bickering (including many I've seen on television who can barely throw a sentence together) are those who truly are ignorant of trends in the local real estate market. How do I know this? Most are saying "Look at the housing market! Values have gone DOWN!! Yada, yada, yada!" Contrariwise NEPA is bucking that trend---our property values continue to rise, and they have risen EXPONENTIALLY since 1965. Don't blame Petrilla, Urban, and Skrepenak for having the bravado to do what SHOULD have been done by countless predecessors who were too cowardly to ever risk committing political suicide (which I firmly believe they have now done). This HAD to be done in order to ensure fairness.

By the way, to those who have now filed a law suit against the county over the reassessment, how do you plan to compensate those who were OVER ASSESSED since 1965 and have been expecting some much-needed relief? I know of several people whose tax bills are declining by hundreds of dollars per year. If you succeed in throwing out this reassessment I hope YOU are all sued by THEM as well!

[MaspethMatt]

scranbarre wrote:

I earn $11/hr. working 30-35 hours per week. That doesn't fluctuate. That's also a "fixed" income. See me whining about it? No.

its not fixed, get a better job. my 16 yr old makes about that part time...
I closed on a cottage this summer, and to quadruple the taxes is just dumb. what i paid and what the county says it's worth are nuts. i'd be happy with a tax increase across the board a certain percent, not this sporadic nonsense.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by MaspethMatt

scranbarre wrote:

I earn $11/hr. working 30-35 hours per week. That doesn't fluctuate. That's also a "fixed" income. See me whining about it? No.

its not fixed, get a better job. my 16 yr old makes about that part time...
I closed on a cottage this summer, and to quadruple the taxes is just dumb. what i paid and what the county says it's worth are nuts. i'd be happy with a tax increase across the board a certain percent, not this sporadic nonsense.

This is only happening because the former county commissioners since the 1960s did not have the intestinal fortitude necessary to complete routine county-wide reassessments every four years, as is recommended. Our own home went from having a value of $8,500 to a value of $208,200 in 2008. That is an increase in value of nearly 25 times since the 1960s. From 1965 to 2008 that is an annual increase in value of just $4,644 per year over that time period, which is comparable to the expected annual rise in local real estate values. Some homes in my subdivision in Pittston mushroomed from around the $8,000-$10,000 assessed value range way up to nearly $400,000. You should not be blaming Skrepenak (as big of a dolt as he is), Petrilla, or Urban for doing what should have been done generations ago. Our taxes are climbing significantly, along with just about everyone else in our development. We're okay with that. It's all part of paying our fair share.