What is Your Opinion on PNC Field? (Economy, Mifflin: 2014, foreclosure)

[FightinPhils]

I think they missed the boat the first time and should have built the stadium near downtown. Plus, they also missed the boat on the design...they built a miniature model of Veterans Stadium, which was one of the multi-purpose cookie cutter bowls that bigger cities were building in the late 60's to early 70's (along with Three Rivers in Pittsburgh, Riverfront in Cincinnati, etc). By the time we built this stadium, most other cities were building natural-grass retro style ballparks, like Baltimore's Camden Yards. Buffalo's AAA stadium was built around the same time as ours and is still state of the art....and its in downtown Buffalo.

http://www.posterartusa.com/images/32smwdOpeningDayPilotField.jpg (broken link)

[blip]

Originally Posted by The Commish

You know, I think this question is actually really complicated.

What we should do is assemble a team of economists, city planners, and other experts to assess the impact of a new sports stadium. The assessment would evaluate the impact on several possible locations and the region at large. It would look at traffic and transit issues, potential for development around the stadium, impact on surrounding businesses, etc. The goal is to just compile something concrete to help guide a decision. Well, that's what I do at least.

But that would only be logical, right?

This seems right on. I'd love to see the stadium downtown, but not at any cost. May not even be worth keeping the team at all if their demands are too high.

On the traffic front, I'd expect downtown to be better. There are multiple streets in the grid and many routes in and out of town, not just one access road to one highway. I wouldn't think attendance at these games would be significantly more than the daily downtown office population, but I don't know these numbers. (Anyone know these stats off hand?)

It's also important not to get too caught up in who the current users are without thinking about new ones a move might attract. There may not be many pedestrian, non-sports fans like me around who would actually start going to games if they were in town. But, there could be a lot of others who get drawn in. (Other city residents, people who can walk over to a game after work, others who could now take a bus, etc.)

the current stadium location is dumb. Everyone has to drive at least 10-15 minutes to get there. I'd rather see it in downtown Wilkes-Barre. Even to get to the trolley, it sounds like you have to drive to some remote parking lot.

And this idea of building lots of retail around it seems dumb- it'll just displace retail/jobs from elsewhere. Build a stadium for sports, let the surrounding areas develop organically if it's needed. Better still, put it where there is an existing fabric of stores and bars or whatever.

[FightinPhils]

Originally Posted by blip

the current stadium location is dumb. Everyone has to drive at least 10-15 minutes to get there. I'd rather see it in downtown Wilkes-Barre. Even to get to the trolley, it sounds like you have to drive to some remote parking lot.

.

Downtown Wilkes-Barre?

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by FightinPhils

Downtown Wilkes-Barre?

If I were an elected official I would have built the stadium in Downtown Scranton (on the UGI site mentioned in the newspaper article today) with an attached parking garage to minimize the footprint of the stadium. The remainder of the 40 acres could be used as green space, possibly even linking the site to the riverfront. I'm also a fan of natural grass as opposed to astro-turf. (UGH!) Camden Yards in Baltimore is another one of my favorite ball parks and has stood the test of time. Something like this, only much smaller of course, would be nice to have downtown, and incorporating the trolley to have a stop near the outfield as scrantonluna suggested earlier would be phenomenal. If the stadium were angled properly then perhaps those in the upper level could even see the Electric City sign lit up at night?


*Image Courtesy of Mall.Ballparks.Com*

I would have also built the Wachovia Arena in Downtown Wilkes-Barre on the large undeveloped tract of land at the end of Coal Street, near to the Jewelcor Building. If this had been done back in 1999 when the arena was built, then it is very possible that adjacent Market Street Square could have been redeveloped by now.

The short-sightedness on the urban planning front around here never ceases to amaze me.

[NYRangers 2008]

I agree with FightinPhils. If the Yankees want a new stadium, let them pay for it. They're one of the richest sports franchises. Or let them make upgrades to the current one. If they put the stadium somewhere in the city, it would have to be in a strategic area, so it wouldn't cause a traffic nightmare.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by NYRangers 2008

I agree with FightinPhils. If the Yankees want a new stadium, let them pay for it. They're one of the richest sports franchises. Or let them make upgrades to the current one. If they put the stadium somewhere in the city, it would have to be in a strategic area, so it wouldn't cause a traffic nightmare.

The problem is that they won't pay for it, and we'll just be left with an empty and aging stadium with no available AAA teams to fill it. I hope former Commissioner Cordaro realizes just what a precarious situation he put us in when he sold us out to Mandalay, a company with a track record of uprooting teams from cities if they don't get their way. I'm by no means a sports fanatic, but I DO like baseball and hockey (which is why I'm happy we have both right in our backyards in an area otherwise grossly dominated by high school football).

[blip]

Originally Posted by FightinPhils

Downtown Wilkes-Barre?

yep, over the current location. (but downtown scranton even more.

[blip]

Originally Posted by blip

On the traffic front, I'd expect downtown to be better. There are multiple streets in the grid and many routes in and out of town, not just one access road to one highway. I wouldn't think attendance at these games would be significantly more than the daily downtown office population, but I don't know these numbers. (Anyone know these stats off hand?)

Not sure how accurate these are but....

From Pennsylvania/Scranton - Zip Code, Weather Forecast, Radio Stations, Population, Crime Rate, Area Codes, Homes for Sale (http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/cities/Pennsylvania/Scranton.html - broken link)
Daytime population change due to commuting: +9,736 (+12.7%)

From Ballpark Digest -- 2007 Attendance by Average -- Affiliated
Average game attendance: 8,801

So, the average game is fewer people than daily commuters. Though, the game traffic is likely more concentrated in both time and location, doesn't seem like it'd be a traffic nightmare by any stretch with a somewhat reasonable downtown location.

And, any road improvement dollars would go a lot further in helping commuters and other users of the roads. Not just Shoppes at Montage or some crap.

[VinceWhirlwind]

of course mr cordaro realizes what he did. he did everything in his office tenure as commissioner based on hate and revenge because he was not selected to run for commissioner four years before. he vowed that he would erase mr. corcoran's legacy during his twenty years as commissioner and guess what? he almost succeeded in four. his design was to get rid of everything that lackawanna county had and sell or rent it to his friends. all of those people that believed his "change" theory played into it.

[to570717]

Vince you are extremly correct.