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I'm in negotiations with Tobyhanna Army Depot about coming up there to work. I have never lived in this area, right now I live all the way down in Mississippi, and was wondering a few things before I make my final decision.
First, I should be bringing in around $50 to 60k/yr. My wife, a recent IT graduate of the University of Phoenix, is hoping to start her career, I'm not sure what she would bring in. We have one boy (5yr old) and would obviously like a good school.
We plan on renting, as we would like to learn alot about the area before jumping into a house. Plus, it would allow our job situations to stabilize.
From my understanding, the northern side of Scranton is middle-class to upper class (correct me if I'm wrong), the southern side of Scranton is lower income (again I could be wrong), the Pocono area is crime filled. I could be way off base, I'm basing this off reading these forums the last few hours.
What I'm trying to find is probably what every other new person to these boards are looking for: A nice safe place to live with a great school system, and zero crime rate. Obviously that is a dream for normal americans, but a goal nontheless. What I'm looking for is a place to rent. Apartment, house, condo...any of those is fine, as long as it is clean, is in a good school district, and doesn't have drugs or thugs.
If you know any places to rent, could you please post a website that I could look into. That would be perfect.
Thank you for reading my story and helping a possible future resident.
Unless you have your heart set on living in a larger city, you should check out the Newfoundland/Greentown area. As a former Toby employee, I can tell you that it's about a 20 minute drive (backroads, not highway) from here. Nice rural, small town area, but we have the necessities within a few miles. Larger shopping areas (Dickson City, Matamoras, or Honesdale) are about 30 minutes away. School district (Wallenpaupack) is great. South Elementary, which is right in Newfoundland, goes from K-6, so your son would stay in the same school for seven years in a row (almost unheard of in this area, and the kids get to know every teacher in this very close-knit school). I can't say enough about how much my kids love their school. I also have one child in high school, and I am happy with how many choices the students have academically and otherwise. There are baseball and soccer leagues for your son's age group, and many other activities. As far as housing, you could check into some of the real estate companies (ReMax, Century 21) as there are several developments in the area that would have rentals available. Good luck with your move.
Congratulations, first of all, on your job offer at Tobyhanna. My brother-in-law works there as some sort of electrical engineer, and they hired him fresh out of college at a wonderful starting salary of nearly $50,000. I consistently come into contact with Tobyhanna employees on my travels, and all of them are happy with their working conditions, benefits, etc. Every few years, you'll hear about rumors that the site will be closing, but I think Tobyhanna is in a pivotal location (within two hours of NYC and Philly yet far enough away from large civilian population centers), and it would be downright foolish for the government to ever close this site.
As far as your long-term housing concerns, I'll address those first, as renting in our area can be a bit trickier. If you were looking to settle down after a year to raise your family in a nice setting, I'd personally reccommend anywhere in the North Pocono School District to you. This area of extreme southern Lackawanna County is roughly midway between the Tobyhanna Army Depot and Scranton, providing you with about a twenty minute commute, and your wife with about a twenty minute commute to the Scranton area to find I/T work. I'll admit that your wife will likely have a somewhat difficult endeavor on her hands to find a decent I/T position in Scranton; my father is a senior I/T analyst/programmer, and when IBM laid him off a few years back, it took him over a year to locate something comparable with CONVERGYS in Wilkes-Barre. However, I have seen openings for her line of work with such Scranton-area companies as MetLife, CIGNA HealthCare, Sanofi-Pasteur Pharmaceuticals, Bank of America, Prudential Financial, and Sallie Mae, so she will eventually locate work; don't let her become discouraged if the I/T market isn't exactly booming around here. There's also a few new local high-tech start-ups, including PepperJam and Solid Cactus (One of which was ranked in Forbes or Money Magazine as being among the Top 100 hot new companies).
Getting back to the North Pocono School District, you'll find this area to offer a blend of rural and suburban housing options. The district's "hub" town is Moscow, a small hamlet of around 2,000 souls with a small downtown area for conveniences, an older yet well-kept housing stock, and is home to the annual Moscow Country Fair. Also in the town proper is the newer, upscale, massive planned-community of Harmony Hills, which has landscaping, sidewalks, curbs, etc. and has housing prices generally in the mid-six-figure range. Personally, while many in the community think the addition of Harmony Hills has been a boon to Moscow's financial bottom line, I think that has signalled the community's shift from out-of-the-way rustic village to suburbia. The surrounding townships are home to a blend of modular/mobile homes, log cabins, older homes on acreage, and newer housing developments. Some newer subdivisions include Stonefield Estates and Windsor Hill, both of which are in Mt. Cobb, as well as Beechwood Hill, which is near Blue Shutters Road in the Roaring Brook/Elmhurst area. The school district is often in contention with Abington Heights for winning the approval of being the best public school district in Lackawanna County. I think this would be a perfect area to be midway between your job and your wife's future job (as well as Scranton and Dickson City, which are where you'll need to head for shopping, dining, nightlife, sporting events, etc.) A helpful web site to start getting a "feel" for the housing market is to do a property search for the North Pocono School District on the following web site for the Greater Scranton Board of Realtors:
Now, getting back to the issue of renting for your first year, you're pretty much out of options in the North Pocono or Tobyhanna areas, as the vast majority of these areas remain rural/suburban with single-family homes. Renting will require you to look closer in to the city of Scranton itself or to its nearby inner suburbs of Dunmore, Taylor, Old Forge, Moosic, or the Mid-Valley. In general, you can't really judge the city on a "north side vs. south side" issue, as there are some exceptions to the rule. Be advised, first of all, that Scranton has a 3.4% city wage tax and Dunmore has a 1% town wage tax, so keep those issues in mind when pondering an apartment or home rental.
The north and east sides of Scranton have traditionally been the "old money" areas. Places such as Green Ridge and the Hill Section were the neighborhoods where wealthier professionals and coal barons established their Victorian showplaces. Green Ridge has always been a stable, upper-middle-class part of the city, and this is where the city's mayor currently resides. The Hill Section fell into decline for a while, but it has since begun a rebound. The improving conditions in the downtown area have created a small yet growing demand for urban housing nearby, and the Hill Section, being as close as it is to Center City, has been transforming itself from a
1990s crime haven to a population that is shifting towards middle-aged professionals, artists, graduate students, empty-nesters, retirees, etc. Families with young children are also dotted around here and there, but I see more children in the West and South sides of the city. East Mountain is home to a blend of middle-aged homes and a few newer developments on the hillside towards Lake Scranton that commands an impressive view of the city skyline at night. It's up in this area where you'll find Tall Trees Apartments and Oakwood Terrace, two major complexes that I find to be desirable. My sister and her fiancee lived in Tall Trees before tying the knot and moving back down to the Pittston Area to raise their family in a house. They always said that the neighbors were friendly, but their main gripe was always the deteriorating conditions of the roads leading up to the complex (it's kind of hidden off of Route 307 near Lake Scranton). I'm not familiar with Oakwood Terrace, but it always looked nice to me as well.
The south and west sides of Scranton have traditionally been the "working-class" and "blue-collar roots" areas. The streets here generally don't have tree lawns and the homes here are more modest and don't have the beautiful historic appointments that the homes in Green Ridge and parts of the Hill Section have, but they are certainly mostly well-kept and are much more affordable. While you'll find rental listings throughout out the entire city, I seem to notice a large percentage of them being in the west and south sides of Scranton. South Side is home to a rapidly-growing Hispanic community, which has created some tensions in the neighborhood amongst the "old-timers" and their new neighbors. Minooka, on the southern fringes of the city near the Moosic town line, is a safe, established part of Scranton that has a suburban feel to it. The west side is home to Hyde Park, a grid-shaped established area of older homes within walking distance to the rebounding downtown shopping area along North Main Avenue, and it is home to several churches, neighborhood schools, and West Scranton High School. The Scranton School District is actually very good for an inner-city public school system, and it even outperforms some of its suburban counterparts in the Mid-Valley and Tri-Boro from time to time. There are also two newer housing developments in West Side that are exempt from property taxes through 2011 or 2012 (one is Tripps Park and I believe the other is called Keyser Terrace), in an attempt to lure more middle-class families back into the city limits from the suburbs to which they fled when the city was "down on its luck" as recently as the 1990s. Now that suburbanites are beginning to notice positive changes occurring in the city, many have been willing to "take a chance" again on it. The 2005 Census estimates indicate that Scranton's population decline has been continuing, but I tend to disagree that it dropped as much as it did in just five years (it's predicting a decline of around 8,000 people in just these five years at a time when the school district is reporting an increase in enrollments).
If urban living doesn't really appeal to you at all, then Dunmore, the Mid-Valley, Moosic, Taylor, and Old Forge would all be viable suburban options.
If I can be of any further help, please let me know!
Personally I would gravitate towards Lackawanna County. The Tobyhanna area...as well as Monroe County, Pike County, and a good part of Wayne County are becoming overrun with transplants from New York City and Northern New Jersey, bringing a lot of "big city" problems with them, as well as sky-high taxes thanks to overcrowded schools and constant infrastructure improvements needed to accomodate a population boom. Pocono real estate proces have also gone sky-high, with prices that are more suited to New Jersey than NE PA. Not to say that all of the New Yorkers are bad...but the fact that some problems have followed is to be expected. Tobyhanna is part of Pocono Mountain school district, which is overcrowded and has experienced a lot of drug and gang issues. If you want a rural setting that is close by, I would check into the Moscow area and North Pocono school district, or look into the Scranton area, which has good schools, low crime, and more affordable real estate. Plus, if you live a distance from Tobyhanna, such as Scranton, the Army Depot provides commuter vans to get to work that are free of charge. Saves a lot on car expenses.
While I agree with most of what Conorsdad said, I do not feel that the problem has affected Wayne County. I have lived here 13 years, and while I have seen many, many people come and go, school enrolement has not changed all that much. I still think the Wayne County area has as much to offer as it did 13 years ago. Quality of life has not changed. While we have many NY/NJ residents moving to our area on a continual basis, I do not see any evidence that they are bringing their big city problems with them to Wayne County.
When looking into the Pocono area, remember it is a very large area, with many countiies and school districts. Some are much worse than others.
I just wanted to thank you for expressing your "concerns" about Monroe County and the general Pocnos area. I was a former resident of the Poconos area (Long Pond/Mt. Pocono) and I spoke of the problems the general area is facing in a seperate thread regarding East Stroudsburg. I was quickly bashed by a native New Yorker within this thread, but it is nice I am not the only one who feels the Poconos has undergone drastic changes the last 10 years!
There really isn't a 'general' poconos area. I have seen people defend the Milford and Dingmans Ferry areas as well as myself defending the Wayne County area when generalizing about the Poconos. I have heard of the problems of gangs in communities as well as within school districts that have gotten worse over the last 10 years. These problems do not exist everywhere in the Poconos. The community crime rates that are documented by our security Dept. speak for themselves.
Thank you all who replied. I must say to ScrantonWilkesBarre, you sir, have a wealth of time spent on this site helping others understand various locations with this county, including photos. Good form!
Thanks to all for your comments.
sjgphoto
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Part One
