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I moved out of the poconos 2 years ago after being there 13 years. It is Bad bad bad. Crime invested. triple the population. drive by shootings. at least a shooting a day. rapes gangs Just call it NY. I left new york to move to the poconos and it was beautiful and peaceful for a while. Dont Go There find something else. If you want proof go to www.poconorecord.com
It all depends on one's own perspective of an area, I suppose. Personally, I think living in the Scranton area is phenomenal. We have minor-league football, hockey, and baseball, ski resorts, water parks, three malls (with an outdoor NYC-style "lifestyle center" on the way), a range of affordable housing options from fixer-uppers in the $40,000-$70,000 range to modest urban homes with three bedrooms, one-and-a-half baths, and a quarter-acre lot for around $100,000 to typical, newer McMansions in the suburbs starting at only $220,000 or so, a low crime rate, great schools, and new casinos on the way. The only real drawbacks are our lack of high-skilled employment opportunities and traffic congestion on I-81, but both should be resolved in the next ten years as I-81 is widened to six lanes, and Scranton is considered "prime property" as the new "Wall Street West" develops (NYC-area firms seeking to establish a second base outside of the city to survive in the event of a terrorist attack of natural disaster) due to its inexpensive real estate and proximity to both NYC and Philly.
I may be a bit biased, being a lifelong resident of the city's quaint suburbs, but I just feel as if our area is on an upswing. The Poconos sprawl over FOUR COUNTIES, (actually six if you county extreme eastern Luzerne and Lackawanna Counties as well), so you can't lay a blanket statement over them! The Stroudsburg area is VERY congested, getting more expensive, and crime is on the rise here as well. However, there are still some nice, rural areas in Pike, Carbon, and Wayne Counties that would be a perfect place to call home. I'd still advise everyone to stay away from ALL of Monroe County if they are looking to relocate here "long-term", as EVERY township has seen tremendous growth in the past twenty to thirty years, and much more is anticipated as well. I must admit that I was a bit hasty to label Pike County in the same boat as Monroe County due to its excessive growth. I took the liberty of driving through the county to relax myself after work today, and I was thrilled to see that the "problems" I had heard about in Pike County were constricted only to Westfall Twp. and Matamoras, where Lowe's, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, etc. were sprouting up. The rest of the county seemed peaceful and tranquil, and Milford seemed very artsy.
My synopsis: Avoid Monroe County at ALL COSTS! It IS the closest county to NYC, (but you can tell!) Pike County is still pristine, but I expect that to change also within twenty years (The fact that Milford banded together to FIGHT against a Home Depot in order to "preserve its character" tells me that Pike County may have more sprawl-related foresight than Monroe County though). Wayne County is VERY rural and far too isolated to promote much, if any sprawl (with the exception of the area directly along or near I-380 and I-84, such as Gouldsboro and Lake Ariel). Carbon County is namely just a bunch of quiet, older, safe towns bunched together (Jim Thorpe, Nesquehoning, Lehighton, Palmerton, Weatherly, Tresckow, etc.) Sprawl from the Lehigh Valley threatens the extreme southern parts of the county, while sprawl from Monroe County threatens the far northern portion of the county, but the vast majority in-between should remain liveable and serene for years to come.
Hey Wayne, I just logged on to your site and I think it will be very helpful when we sell our home in SW Florida. We want to move to Northern Wayne County or maybe Susquehanna County. Does your site cover these areas?
I've seen fewer members from those areas, but we get a lot of lurkers and perhaps someone would chime in to help if they see a question posted they can answer. It doesn't hurt to try!
I am not sure of the rules of this forum, but my intentions weren't to hijack this thread to promote my own forums. I just want to help as many people as I can. I would welcome anyone with questions to e-mail me directly at editor@PoconoCommuter.com rather than post them here out of respect for this forum, unless the forum admins don't mind.
Monroe is experiencing a huge growth surge, but so is southeastern Pike, and the tip of Carbon county closest to Monroe as some people do try to relocated a bit off the beaten path.
I have heard that Scranton and Wilkes-Barre are also experiencing a great deal of growth from NYC and NJ ttansplants - not people commuting to NJ and NYC, but people who are moving there seeking whatever employment is available locally which they can do because the cost of living is also cheaper. Not everyone is out to own a new McMansion.
If you look at the broader picture, what is happening here is happening all across the country as more and more city people migrate away for better opportunities, mostly by becoming extreme commuters.
Now is the time to champion telecommuting, because we have the technology to perform many jobs right from our own homes. It saves on gas, is environmentally friendly to work from home, and allows people to live in many places where they could not if they had to commute into a job every day.
I have read some of the comments made here it seems that "certain people" do not what certain elements in their neighborhood. While I agree that one will want safety in their community and peace of mind. I hope this does not mean they willl try to prevent decent persons from living in the same area as them regardless of race. I am looking for a safe place to raise my kid. That's all.
Wayne, you are correct in your assumption that Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is also seeing a surge in new residents from NY/NJ. I work at the Wilkes-Barre Lowe's, and everyday I help out customers from "New Joisey" and "New Yahk" who are packing their bags and moving here, buying homes in the cities in Luzerne and Lackawanna Counties DIRT CHEAP and then spending $50,000 or so to renovate them into true showplaces. Granted, we ARE a bit far for a NYC commute, but a commute to North Jersey is still feasible--Perhaps just 90 minutes each way.
Isn't it sad to think that just a few generations ago people lived in small, tree-lined towns and were so close to home that they could WALK home from work to have lunch with their spouses? Now, we think an hour commute is "short!" We're becoming a society that strives to segregate itself as much as possible from the "lower classes", and in doing so we're breeding a new generation of children who may never get the chance to interact with children of different ethnic and religious backgrounds, as they would have been able to back in the city. This is why I'm pushing to curtail the harmful sprawl that I see in Scranton (rated as one of the nation's most sprawl-threatened small cities) and trying to get people to move back into Scranton, Pittston, and Wilkes-Barre. There's something to be said for spending LESS time behind the wheel of a vehicle and MORE time in your backyard playing ball with Johnny or teaching Susie how to have a tea party! Most of the people moving to PA are doing so only for THEMSELVES not for their FAMILIES! Do you think your child would rather you drive two hours each day from work in order to have a big enough income to put a Range Rover in the driveway on your cul-de-sac or would he/she rather have those two hours spent having daddy and mommy help out with homework, read to them, watch DVDs with them, take them for ice cream, etc.? The sprawl phenomenon is extremely severe here in the Scranton area, so I could only imagine how bad it must be in the WORST sprawl-threatened cities (Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix, L.A., Charlotte, etc.)
By the way, Wayne, many of the transplants ARE buying McMansions in the Abingtons, North Pocono, Mountain Top, and Back Mountain. How they can afford to do so when the local job climate is deplorable is beyond me, but I suppose it's truly none of my business.
Scranton I hope some your remarks were not meant to sarcastic. Nothing wrong in working out of PA and raising a family in PA. My peace of my comes first. I like what I do in NY and a mansion is not my style. I am showing my wife some of the comments and she feels the same as me. safe environment, nice neighborhood, and clean living.
I didn't mean to begrudge anyone individually, Rob. It's just a bit sad to see how our cities have declined over just a few generations to the point where so many feel inclined to relocate so FAR away from them in order to have a sense of security. A lot of children here in the Poconos wake up in the mornings and don't see their parents, as they leave to commute to NYC at 5 AM. They then head onto the bus to school without having mommy and/or daddy kissing them goodbye and telling them to have a great day. They come home on the bus, key in hand, and unlock the front door. They then spend time at home, often alone (but sometimes under the watch of older siblings) until their parents return home at 8 PM. By that time, mommy and daddy are often too stressed out, tired, busy, etc. to spend any time with their children. Don't tell me this doesn't happen either because I've seen it happen first-hand with my ex's family, who lives near Mount Pocono.
I'm not saying parents are necessarily "bad" people for spending so much time away from their families while thinking it's honestly "better" for their children, but when these children reach their teenage years and are tempted with peer pressure in the afternoon, what's to stop them from having a house party, dabbling in drug usage, drinking, etc. when they KNOW that they won't be under parental supervision yet for several more hours? There are currently a lot of problems with rowdy teenagers in the Poconos, and I suspect that it comes from such a lack of adult supervision.
You have to admit that I have a point here. Life was undoubtedly MUCH better when everyone lived in closer proximity to work and school (and felt SAFE doing so). Where that all went wrong was after WWII, when our nation foolishly started pushing for all of our stable, middle-class and upper-middle-class families to flock to the suburbs while the government invested billions in new road systems. As a result, the cities became nothing but home to the lower-classes who had no financial means to "escape" the city as their more well-off counterparts did. This led to a situation of despair and in the city, which led to an increase in crime and a deterioration in schools.
Eventually, the middle-class noticed the deterioration spreading to the cheaper inner-suburbs as well and started packing their bags to move even FURTHER away from their respective cities, trading in a longer commute for peace of mind. Now, that phenemenon has people setting foot daily across THREE STATES in order to have a stable income while having a safe neighborhood and a great quality of life. However, the quality-of-life in the Poconos will also eventually deteriorate (It's already begun to a bit in the Stroudsburg area) and people will look even FURTHER away from NYC to relocate, perhaps even all the way to Scranton...(To be continued)
My main point is that we, as a nation, need to STOP and re-examine our way of thinking. Growing up, I used to cringe when my mother would take me downtown for medical appointments. Now that we live in suburbia and have to drive EVERYWHERE even for a gallon of milk, and where I have to dodge heavy commuter traffic and heavy auto emissions while trying to go running,I realize that suburbia isn't always all that it's cracked up to be. We need to find out just what's causing the quality-of-life in our cities to be so TERRIBLE to force people out so far away. Eventually, this has to STOP entirely! First it was North Jersey. When that became "overcrowded, expensive, crime-ridden, etc.", People started heading to Stroudsburg. Now that the same is beginning to happen to Eastern Monroe County, people are moving to Northwestern Monroe County, Pike County, and Northern Carbon County. Eventually, these areas too will "fill up", and people will flock to the next area up the line, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, eventually dragging down our quality-of-life as well with congestion, crime, etc. (Which is why I'm so worried about the Pocono issue right now).
I'd care to guess that there will be MANY leaving Scranton for work at 4:30 AM in the upcoming years, coming home from NYC at around 8:45 PM, going immediately to bed, and NOT HAVING A FAMILY LIFE in order to find cheap housing and great schools. Is that really fair to your family? Two days per week of "quality time" can't make up for a Monday-Friday of neglecting them by barely speaking a word. I'm not saying, Rob, that this is YOUR case---I'm just saying that this is the unfortunate reality of some of our recent transplants. Where I grew up, my parents worked only ten minutes away, and they would have time everyday to pick me up after school as we talked about our days. They earned a great living (a combined $90,000, indicating that there ARE stable jobs in Scranton) and always had time for me. Could they have commuted to NYC, doubled their salaries (both have degrees) and moved on up to one of the area's newer McMansion enclaves with a new Porsche? Of course. They decided to trade the upper-class lifestyle for middle-class, mini-van mediocrity in order to spend time with their children, and for that I think my sister and I both grew up better than we would have with "part-time parents" who missed all of our recitals, drama plays, school jazz concerts, etc. because they were still out in Netcong, or Hopatcong, or Passaic (or some other Jersey town) stuck in traffic on I-80.
Once again, Rob, this isn't a "personal attack on you" or ANYONE for that matter. I'm just pointing out a SERIOUS problem here that needs to be addressed---When will people from NJ/NY think their commute is "too far?" I know of many now moving into Scranton who make this commute (which I probably will even myself as a single person), but driving to Tobyhanna and hopping a Martz bus into Midtown Manhattan is almost SIX HOURS round-trip! How can this not start to get on people's nerves? How can this not start to strain family relationships? Once again, the Poconos, Rob are a great place to live, but for the sake of your family please try to find something suitable for employment in NJ (even a transfer) to shorten your commute. Why trade spending time for your children in order to feel secure and have great schools when you can have it all? My ex was very depressed to grow up and never see mom or dad, and I just want to see this phenomenon STOP at some point, as we're continuing to hurt our children more than help them!
Just to illustrate my point a bit better, consider that there are 24 hours in a day, and 168 hours in a week. If you were to spend six hours each day commuting to and from work, that leaves you with 18 hours. Figure in eight hours working and eight hours or so sleeping, and you know what that leaves? Just TWO HOURS of quality time per day to spend with your family if you were to take the plunge and do the Scranton-NYC commute. (Most of that time would probably be spent getting ready for work in the morning and/or tending to daily household chores anyways). Is that fair to our children? No. However, that's what I'm starting to see happening now, and I'm not excited about it. Sure, more people from NY/NJ in Scranton means more diversity, more culture, more "open-minded" people, etc., but it also means more children going to bed feeling unloved at night. Even if people here have the weekends available for "quality time", they still have to factor in mowing that lawn, trimming those hedges, buying groceries, etc., which leaves even LESS time to spend together. There are families here with teenagers addicted to drugs who are honestly CLUELESS because they aren't home enough to know what their own children are up to! I just don't want to see that happening anymore. Thank you.
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and perhaps someone would chime in to help if they see a question posted they can answer. It doesn't hurt to try!
