Smoking ban NOT hurting business... (businesses, places, union)

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by AmeriKenArtist

Anyone that blows smoke into the faces of strangers in a restaurant, is unconscionable. Forget about rules, ordinances or statistics.

Very well said, very well said indeed......

[Michael J. McFadden]

Go Phillies wrote, "I'm not sure why there are people opposed to this smoking ban. It is a lot less strict than other states and offers smokers a place to go where they can still smoke and offers nonsmokers the chance to go out again and not breathe in smoke and smell like an ashtray. It seems its a win-win situation, and is not hurting business owners at all."

GP, there are several reasons to fight it:

1) It's not a win-win situation for the bars, restaurants, bingos, and bowling alleys that were not able to get exemptions and have lost business, laid off workers and/or closed. How many bars has this happened to? I don't know: I don't have the resources to gather that sort of data. The people who *do* have plenty of resources and authority for that are the ones who promoted the ban... and you'll notice that they've said nothing about the figures. Three guesses why. And if they ever DO say anything about them... see if they give equal time to anyone who wants to publicly examine them.

2) Antismokers have always used "Divide and Conquer" as a strategy when they can't walk out with the whole salami. When they have to they'll always take slice by slice, always coming back for more, recruiting the businesses they've hurt as strengthening allies by promising them that their woes will be cured once they have "a level playing field." Of course it's a lie, just like their other lies: the level playing field will give back 2% or 5% of the 10 or 20 or 30% that's been taken. For a good example of what the mythical level playing field does on a statewide level take a look at this quick graph:

http://banthebanwisconsin.com/Documents/MNGraph.pdf (broken link)

After two years of very significant losses under partial bans, Minnesota went to a full ban... and the bottom dropped out entirely: a 22 to 30%+ loss to their charitable gambling tax revenue. A loss of up to or more than 30 million dollars per month, perhaps as much as 500 million dollars a year... that will have to be made up by ALL of Minnesota's taxpayers - smokers and nonsmokers alike.

3) Because the banned venues are not responding to market forces that would naturally funnel smokers to smoking venues, there is an excess of smokers who do indeed end up going to the banned places and wind up clogging the sidewalks outside. Walk around downtown and see the result on a weekend evening. Think for a minute now if you were truly one of those few folks who actually ARE sensitive to small amounts of smoke, and think how you'd no longer be able to walk happily to a smoke-free bar or restaurant past all the other places where smokers were happily shut away from you and inside. For the moment of course you'd still have some degree of relief because we DID get a good number of ban exemptions. But think how it will get when the Antismokers come back to "close the loopholes" they've temporarily left behind.

4) And then go beyond all that: remember that they are NEVER satisfied. Once they get the bars, they move almost instantly on to such things as private cars, condominiums, apartments, and row houses (smoke crawls along electrical wiring and plumbing to attack them y'know...). Then, if they want to take a break before banning it outdoors, they'll focus their efforts on promoting job and educational discrimination, taking children away from smoking parents or foster parents, or just plain old tax increases on a poorly organized minority group.

They won't even call them tax increases: they prefer the term "voluntary user fee." Try plopping down $10 for a carton of smokes at the 7-11 and walking out without paying that "voluntary fee" and see how far you get.

Finally, even the bans in place end up hurting very real people with very real lives and very real bodies. Students that fall from ledges of smoke-banned dorms, waitresses who get raped on their smoke break in back alleys (can't let them smoke out front of course!), bouncers who get stabbed in fights that break out over bans... real people: not the fuzzy statistics created in the imaginations of computer program codes.

Sooooo... a bit long-winded maybe... but you can see why even the partial ban deserved a good fight.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"

[Mr Yuk]

Oh brother...

That tinfoil hat must be a little tight....its cutting circulation to your brain...

[NYRangers 2008]

Wow, a little long-winded? After reading Michael J. McFadden's post I have that glazed look on my face, kind of like a deer in-the-headlights look.

[AmeriKenArtist]

...message have you reaching for a smoke?

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by AmeriKenArtist

...message have you reaching for a smoke?

Nope, never smoked in my life and never had the urge.

[AmeriKenArtist]

Curiousity maybe. Never been curious enough to try it? Good for you. Once you do try it, the addiction starts. I actually heard this from my teenage son! He told me that he was at a party and smoked two cigarettes. First time ever for him. When he woke up the next morning, the first thing on his mind was smoking a cigarette. He had the "urge!" THAT scared him! He knew it was some kind of wrong feeling to have in the morning. THAT kept him away..........

[Mr Yuk]

Originally Posted by NYRangers 2008

Nope, never smoked in my life and never had the urge.

I wish I had never tried it.....I wasted a lot of money on those cancer sticks. Oh well, live and learn....at least I quit before it was too late.

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by AmeriKenArtist

Curiousity maybe. Never been curious enough to try it? Good for you. Once you do try it, the addiction starts. I actually heard this from my teenage son! He told me that he was at a party and smoked two cigarettes. First time ever for him. When he woke up the next morning, the first thing on his mind was smoking a cigarette. He had the "urge!" THAT scared him! He knew it was some kind of wrong feeling to have in the morning. THAT kept him away..........

I tried it when I was a teenager, you know experimenting with friends. But never got the urge to keep on doing it. Guess I didn't care much for it and didn't get hooked.

[Mr Yuk]

More proof that smoking bans do not hurt bar and restaurant business, they actually help it:

"Our numbers here at Gavin's have increased since we got rid of the smoking."

http://thetimes-tribune.com/arts-living/a-green-ridge-institution-andy-gavin-s-eatery-pub-celebrates-50-years-1.783464 (broken link)

I remember all of the chicken littles saying that all of these places were going to close up and people would be out of jobs because of smoking bans. Looks like that was a bunch of crap.