The new Political/off topic sticky chat thread (Pittston, Patton: safer, housing)

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by The Commish

There are so many things wrong with this paragraph.

(1) Republicans think torture is still wrong, right? See how ridiculous it sounds when you actually acknowledge that you're torturing people?

(2) If states break international law by torturing people (or by not effectively prosecuting torture in its territory), then we should pursue these nations for violations of international law. Republicans still believe in the "rule of law," don't they? I understand that you may not be aware that the United States is subject to the U.N Convention Against Torture. We are. That document is as much legally binding as a statute passed by Congress and signed by the President.

If they torture us, we don't "get them back" by torturing them. We prosecute them for breaking the law. I don't know why this concept is so difficult for Republicans to grasp. I thought they were all about law enforcement?

(3) This amateur armchair pop psychology bit about "they'll think we're weak if we don't torture them" is disgraceful as it's sophomoric. Torture doesn't deter; it further emboldens. Terrorists are using our torturing of Gitmo detainees as a recruiting tool. That's why Obama never released the photos, because it would engender anti-American violence. Why give terrorists something to actually be right about?

Well, I still think it would be a bad idea to close Gitmo and have these terrorists come to the US.

[Magritte25]

Originally Posted by NYRangers 2008

They are TERRORISTS. Who cares about them? I thought this is where we could talk local and national politics. It doesn't say anything on the header about being just local.

And we are AMERICANS who go after other countries for their human rights violations. That is why I care. It's not about our reputation, it's about our blatant hypocrisy.

I'm of the mind that when one talks the talk, they need to walk the walk.

[NYRangers 2008]

I have a link to an article about terrorists.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TEMPLE_PLOT?SITE=WILKAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=D EFAULT (broken link)

[Magritte25]

That is so scary. It really is. It makes me afraid for my children's futures. But it doesn't change my mind that the US should uphold the values it lords over others.

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

That is so scary. It really is. It makes me afraid for my children's futures. But it doesn't change my mind that the US should uphold the values it lords over others.

It is scary. So we should be kind to terrorists and criminals? These are the same people who flew our commercial jets into the sides of the World Trade Center and killed thousands. I just can't be as compassionate to them as you are. I'm sorry.

[Magritte25]

Originally Posted by NYRangers 2008

It is scary. So we should be kind to terrorists and criminals? These are the same people who flew our commercial jets into the sides of the World Trade Center and killed thousands. I just can't be as compassionate to them as you are. I'm sorry.

We shouldn't be kind to them. There are ways to be extremely tough on people without torturing them and without being hypocritical.

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

We shouldn't be kind to them. There are ways to be extremely tough on people without torturing them and without being hypocritical.

In what ways are we being hypocritical? I don't believe we are, since they did something so horrible to us that pales in comparison what we are doing to them.

[Magritte25]

I think when we go to other countries - uninvited mind you - and start trying to throw our weight around about their abuse of humans and then go and torture *suspected* terrorists, it's hypocritical.

Not only that but torturing POWs is against the Geneva Convention III. Articles 13 through 16 of this Convention state that, " prisoners of war must be treated humanely without any adverse discrimination and that their medical needs must be met."

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

I think when we go to other countries - uninvited mind you - and start trying to throw our weight around about their abuse of humans and then go and torture *suspected* terrorists, it's hypocritical.

Not only that but torturing POWs is against the Geneva Convention III. Articles 13 through 16 of this Convention state that, " prisoners of war must be treated humanely without any adverse discrimination and that their medical needs must be met."

We're not talking about POWs here. Terrorists don't belong to a military of another country, therefore don't fall under the Geneva Convention.

[Magritte25]

Taliban captives are POWs no matter how the US Gov't tries to say they are not - they are just "enemy combatants". Same difference.