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Genesis Wildlife Center move: Going from bad to worse? | News | thetimes-tribune.com - The Times-Tribune (http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/articles/2009/04/16/news/sc_times_trib.20090416.a.pg3.tt16genesis_s1.245078 8_top6.txt - broken link)
I have to say that I am happy the Times is still addressing the core issue, that the animals are not going to be in a better place as long as they stay under Miller's control. Again, we see more and more unrest from those who deal with the Millers, specifically a former associate of Dr. Miller's, namely Dr. Andrew Church, who says 'These animals will be going from a bad situation to an infinitely worse situation,' ... 'Among Dr. Church’s concerns are the Millers’ plans to keep the Pocono Lake facility private. That means the USDA will no longer have oversight, though the Pennsylvania Game Commission will continue to make regular inspections of the facility.'
Dr. Miller, who reveals that exotic animals have been kept at the Pocono Lake facility for 27 years, decided to NOT let Times reporters inside the building, so we have no idea what conditions may be. They did say it's 40,000 sf, with '18-20' cages. MBS, how does that compare with the old zoo building?
Is it time to start airing concerns about what we have heard hear from D Dozen concerning Dr. Miller? What is Dr. Church's stake in this? What caused him to leave the Pocono Lake facility?
I think the fact that Miller is choosing to keep the animals hidden from public view is a HUGE red flag. I suppose that she did not need the city's help after all, since she plans to continue to operate without the ability to raise donations, being as the animals will not be displayed...
One last point. I learned that apparently, Dr. Church started his career working for Dr. Miller and they had a bitter parting of ways. Seeing these two doctors on opposite ends of the pole is no surpirse considering their current personal animosity.
Seems as though they are trying to dilute Dr. Church's comments. I wonder how he came to be quoted in the first place?
Since he has cared for Miller's 'pets' in the past, I'm sure he would have some real insight into the true health and condition of the animals.
If you want to ask directly, here's the web/street address and phone number.
I already emailed him with an invitation to join our discussion.
Blakeslee Animal Clinic HC 87 Box 806 Pocono Lake, Pennsylvania 18347 United States Phone : (570)643-0918 Fax : (570)643-1080
Just a personal note, but if you need ANY vet care in the Pocono Lake region, I'd be going to THIS guy! I wonder what he would have to say about D Dozen's reports of Dr. Miller stomping a pet to death.
Last edited by scrantonluna; 04-16-2009 at 10:20 AM..
Genesis Wildlife Center move: Going from bad to worse? | News | thetimes-tribune.com - The Times-Tribune (http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/articles/2009/04/16/news/sc_times_trib.20090416.a.pg3.tt16genesis_s1.245078 8_top6.txt - broken link)
I have to say that I am happy the Times is still addressing the core issue, that the animals are not going to be in a better place as long as they stay under Miller's control. Again, we see more and more unrest from those who deal with the Millers, specifically a former associate of Dr. Miller's, namely Dr. Andrew Church, who says 'These animals will be going from a bad situation to an infinitely worse situation,' ... 'Among Dr. Church’s concerns are the Millers’ plans to keep the Pocono Lake facility private. That means the USDA will no longer have oversight, though the Pennsylvania Game Commission will continue to make regular inspections of the facility.'
Dr. Miller, who reveals that exotic animals have been kept at the Pocono Lake facility for 27 years, decided to NOT let Times reporters inside the building, so we have no idea what conditions may be. They did say it's 40,000 sf, with '18-20' cages. MBS, how does that compare with the old zoo building?
Is it time to start airing concerns about what we have heard hear from D Dozen concerning Dr. Miller? What is Dr. Church's stake in this? What caused him to leave the Pocono Lake facility?
I think the fact that Miller is choosing to keep the animals hidden from public view is a HUGE red flag. I suppose that she did not need the city's help after all, since she plans to continue to operate without the ability to raise donations, being as the animals will not be displayed...
I agree that there are a number of red flags here, but unless someone comes forward with some solid evidence that Miller is breaking USDA or PA regulations, I don't think there is too much that can be done. Yesterday's article made it sound as if Dr. Church is working with the Millers to take care of the animals; today's article really doesn't sound that way at all. It is difficult to say what is going on. I wonder what the exact terms were of the agreement that was worked out at the hearing.
Re the size of the building--unfortunately, I do not have figures on exactly how many square feet the old zoo building is. I have estimates of the sizes of many of the individual enclosures, but that's it. I don't have precise measurements, and I don't have figures for every enclosure, so I can't just add them all up. A 40,000-sf building would cover almost an acre. Assuming that figure is accurate, that is quite a large building, although it's probably still not really enough when you consider that Miller has a number of big cats, quite a few primates, and many other smaller animals.
At any rate, knowing the number of square feet in the building doesn't really give us much info. How much of the area in the building will actually be devoted to the animal enclosures? At the very least, there must be some sort of aisle for people to walk in, and we don't know if there are also storage facilities, etc. We know there are 18-20 enclosures, but since we don't know what percentage of the total area is devoted to animal enclosures, we can't really calculate an average enclosure size. And it might be that some of the enclosures are very large, and others very small. Also, is all or part of the building heated in the winter? (If any substantial part of that building is heated, that must be some heating bill.) Are there enclosures outside, so that the animals can be in the fresh air during good weather? Is the ventilation in the building adequate? Is the lighting in the building appropriate for the various species? Do the enclosures offer proper enrichment? Do the enclosures offer places to hide, climb, etc.? What sort of floors do the enclosures have? Are there safety precautions in the building to prevent escapes? I could keep going, but you get the idea.
Again, the underlying problem is that the USDA regs are not strict enough.
Clarifying things or muddy-ing the waters - you decide
Hello all. I don’t normally reply on these, mostly because I am too busy, but I thought maybe I could help clarify some things.
As usual, not all the facts are known by everyone but there are no shortages of conjecture and assumptions. Hopefully I can shed some light on what I know.
Despite what was written that I “started my career” working for Dr. Miller, nothing could be farther from the truth. I actually started my career in Seattle and moved to PA in 1996. I did work for Dr. Miller for a number of years and left in 2008 to open my own practice in Blakeslee. It was at that time that I became the sole veterinarian for Genesis Wildlife Center. The specifics as to why I replaced Dr. Miller are a personal issue between him and his wife so I won’t get into that. Also, the comment that there is “current personal animosity” is not entirely true. I really have no feelings for the man at all.
Some facts:
1) The article in the Times stating that Dr. Miller and I would oversee the move of the animals and that is completely false. I agreed to be the veterinarian for Genesis only as long as I was not associated with Dr. Miller. The minute he became re-involved with the animals, I was out, 100%. I will no longer be, in any way, shape, or form involved or associated with Genesis Wildlife or the animals.
2) I have known Margie Miller for years and as far as the animals are concerned she has always been interested in giving the best care possible. Her and her staff NEVER gave less than 110% to the care of these animals. The claims that she continued to add animals were grossly exaggerated and with a very few exceptions, all the animals came with her when she moved into Nay Aug. The Canadian lynx and a capuchin monkey were added either as game commission seizures or surrenders. The tiger cubs were admittedly a bad idea (even Margie agrees with that) and it was not without support and encouragement from the city of Scranton that they were acquired. The same city that abandoned them the second the opposition got serious.
3) A 40,000 sq ft building is an enormous structure and unless there has been some brand new construction (within the last 5 hours) no such structure exists in Pocono Lake. So that means that either Dr. Miller exaggerated his facility or he was misquoted by the Times (you choose).
I could go on and on but think I will end this here. I hope that this helps some. I am happy to continue to participate in this forum and hopefully continue to offer a different “inside” perspective.
Thanks for reading.
Andrew (Dr. Church)
Last edited by AJChurchVMD; 04-16-2009 at 08:01 PM..
Reason: adjusting presentation
Dr. Church, thank you so much for responding. I don't think anyone here wants to make assumptions based on second or third hand knowledge, which makes it so important to hear from someone who is involved but can still be objective.
I'm sure MBS and others will have a slew of questions, but I will throw out the major one: In your opinion, at this point in time does Margie Miller have the resources to provide these animals with a proper home? Do you feel they are safe in her care?
I will ask this only because it deals with the safety of the animals; a volunteer from the GWC posted on here with reports of abusive behavior towards animals on Dr. Miller's part. Have you witnessed anything along those lines while working with him? The accusations are serious and will need to be addressed if confirmed.
Again, thank you for having the courage to post on city-data, and please feel free to shed light on any part of this issue you care to discuss.
Hello all. I don’t normally reply on these, mostly because I am too busy, but I thought maybe I could help clarify some things.
As usual, not all the facts are known by everyone but there are no shortages of conjecture and assumptions. Hopefully I can shed some light on what I know.
Despite what was written that I “started my career” working for Dr. Miller, nothing could be farther from the truth. I actually started my career in Seattle and moved to PA in 1996. I did work for Dr. Miller for a number of years and left in 2008 to open my own practice in Blakeslee. It was at that time that I became the sole veterinarian for Genesis Wildlife Center. The specifics as to why I replaced Dr. Miller are a personal issue between him and his wife so I won’t get into that. Also, the comment that there is “current personal animosity” is not entirely true. I really have no feelings for the man at all.
Some facts:
1) The article in the Times stating that Dr. Miller and I would oversee the move of the animals and that is completely false. I agreed to be the veterinarian for Genesis only as long as I was not associated with Dr. Miller. The minute he became re-involved with the animals, I was out, 100%. I will no longer be, in any way, shape, or form involved or associated with Genesis Wildlife or the animals.
2) I have known Margie Miller for years and as far as the animals are concerned she has always been interested in giving the best care possible. Her and her staff NEVER gave less than 110% to the care of these animals. The claims that she continued to add animals were grossly exaggerated and with a very few exceptions, all the animals came with her when she moved into Nay Aug. The Canadian lynx and a capuchin monkey were added either as game commission seizures or surrenders. The tiger cubs were admittedly a bad idea (even Margie agrees with that) and it was not without support and encouragement from the city of Scranton that they were acquired. The same city that abandoned them the second the opposition got serious.
3) A 40,000 sq ft building is an enormous structure and unless there has been some brand new construction (within the last 5 hours) no such structure exists in Pocono Lake. So that means that either Dr. Miller exaggerated his facility or he was misquoted by the Times (you choose).
I could go on and on but think I will end this here. I hope that this helps some. I am happy to continue to participate in this forum and hopefully continue to offer a different “inside” perspective.
Thanks for reading.
Andrew (Dr. Church)
Hello Dr. Church, and thank you very much for posting here. I am wondering if you have any idea why Ms. Miller ever agreed to move her animals to such an outdated facility as the old Nay Aug Zoo. I have heard references several times to promises made by the city to provide a better facility, but if such promises were made and then failed to materialize as the years went by, why did Ms. Miller decide to continue housing her animals in the old zoo building?
Some of the reasons behind the move to Nay Aug were due to promises made by the city (others were personal). I think that Margie saw an opportunity, based on those promises, to do better for the animals. The reasons to stay once some of the promises were not kept were a little more personal and beyond my scope to discuss (out of respect for Margie).
Interestingly, the only person talking to the media about the move is Dr. Miller. He keeps talking about these animals being "his personal pets" yet the only person taking the heat is Margie Miller. Nobody mentioned Dr. Miller when they were hammering Genesis wildlife Center. And neither was he heard from defending it in the middle of the barage. Suddenly they are his "personal pets" and he is taking them back.
The issues regarding statements made as to Dr. Miller's supposed abusive behavior towards animals are beyond the scope of what I will discuss. Anyone who knows me, knows that I would never defend the man, not for any reason. However, I will also not get involved with conjecture. I can say that as long as I workled for Dr. Miller I would have NEVER allowed such behavior to go unaddressed and I would NEVER have allowed any form of mistreatment to go unchecked. What occured when I was not physically present is, obviously, not for me to say. I think anyone who witnessed ANY kind of abuse should feel compelled to file a complaint with the appropriate authorities.
As far as Margie's ability to continue caring for these animals goes, she definitely has the skill and the heart. But the reality is, that based on the latest news, it appears as though that burden now falls to Dr. Miller since these are, as he said, his "personal pets".
Make no mistake, I support Margie Miller 100%. I have never met a more dedicated, caring person. She got sucked into a politic quagmire and as is usually the case, the most expendable person takes the hit. That is almost never the political entity involved. Were some bad decisions made? No doubt about that. But does that make Margie an evil person? Does that make her a mentally disturbed "hoarder" as has been suggested? Definitely not.
The second clip features Dr. Miller. As Dr. Church points out, it's odd that all of a sudden Dr. Miller has appeared as if he has been a vital part of GWC all along. Up until my mention however, I don't think he was even brought up in any of the news media or other postings. He certainly had no visable role at GWC, at least not in recent years.
As for reports of Dr. Miller's actions, this is what poster D Dozen reported. {To the mods, I see no reason to lock the thread for re-posting these, the originals are still out there, and these are serious allegations. If you disagree with their mention, please delete only this part of the post. They are copied verbatim}
Quote:
(H)e stomped a dog to death while its owners were out in the waiting room. The dog was brought in because it was sick and it snapped at him and he punished the dog.
Quote:
he won't even go into see an animal unless it's restrained or knocked out how wonderful is that. The horror stories of this man are endless. Why do you think all his help went to another vet.
Dr. Church, your reports of NOT seeing this type of behavior while present is at least a small bit comforting, and hopefully the poster is either exaggerating or mistaken. My question as to if Margie can truly care for these animals was two fold; you answered the first part, but in your opinion, could she possibly have the financial means and a proper facility in which to keep them? You say that the burden now falls on Dr. Miller, since he is basically claiming ownership of the animals - will Margie be restricted from contact once they go back to Dr. Miller? Is that why she has resisted moving them from Nay Aug?
It is unfortunate that Dr. Miller choses to look upon these animals as 'pets,' rather than what they are, exotic and dangerous animals. One has to wonder, since Miller states he has had exotics for 30+ years, if we may find any reports of abuse or poor conditions if we dig back further than what has happened at Nay Aug.
Dr. Miller's continued message that the bulk of complaints regarding GWC were limited to the building leads me to believe one of two things; either he really doesn't get the fact that the problem was that he and Margie packed the animals in like sardines, or he is also full of the bitterness towards the city that GWC has been spreading for years. Believe me, it was GWC's presentation and poor management/attitude that turned off donors and prevented growth.
No reason to beat a dead horse though, unless more reports of abuse come to light, I think this journey is at an end. Keeping exotic animals as pets in concrete pens may not be right, but it does appear to be legal, and it looks as though it may continue to go on in the Poconos.
Dr. Church, it's a shame that you were not more involved with GWC, I think they would have prospered under the guidance of a person such as yourself. Once again, thanks for your insight.
1) Several recent articles (including this one) have mentioned that there are around 24-25 animals involved. But articles from just a few weeks ago listed something like 50 animals at the GWC. What happened to the other animals???
2) As we've noted here before, there were accredited sanctuaries interested in accepting the animals, so if the conditions at the Millers' facility in the Poconos are as bad as Dr. Church says, then it is a real shame that the Millers did not agree to move the animals to sanctuaries where they could be cared for properly.
3) The USDA laws need to be strengthened to prevent more sad situations like this one from occurring. PA could also place its own stricter limits on private ownership of exotic animals. Does anyone really need their own, private tiger????
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Clarifying things or muddy-ing the waters - you decide
