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My family may be relocating to Northeastern Pennsylvania and we recently have been looking at Dallas. Can anyone give us some general information about the area, the schools, housing, etc.? Thanks!
Dallas doesn't have many drawbacks, especially when contrasted to some other communities in the region. As a word of note though if you are looking at homes online the "Dallas" mailing address devours several distinctive municipalities, so bear in mind that while you might use the Dallas Post Office you might pay your taxes somewhere else. The surrounding communities, which I'll list below, comprise an area of about 35,000 people known as the "Back Mountain," so a lot of times when people say they're from "Dallas" they really live in Dallas Township or another adjacent community and just use "Dallas" as their focal point, as this is the "downtown" of the Back Mountain, which is by far the largest bedroom community for Wilkes-Barre, which, ironically, only has a slightly higher population now than the Back Mountain because many middle-class families have moved to that area from the city.
Back Mountain:
Dallas Borough
Dallas Township
Franklin Township
Harvey's Lake Borough
Jackson Township
Kingston Township
Lake Township
Lehman Township
As if that isn't confusing enough a lot of people say they live in "Shavertown" or "Truckville," but neither one are technically "towns." Trucksville is a section of Kingston Township, and Shavertown is a section that straddles both Jackson Township and Kingston Township. I personally think it would be easier to just merge all of those communities I listed into one giant "Back Mountain Borough" to get more state/Federal funding by virtue of being one singular larger governing body, but that's for a separate rant.
Depending on which community you settle down in your children would attend either Dallas School District or the Lake-Lehman School District. In terms of ratings, test scores, spending per pupil, yada, yada, yada, Dallas is often tied with or right around Crestwood (Mountain Top area) for snagging top honors in Luzerne County with Lake-Lehman often coming in around fourth (but it's still a solid school district). One may even argue that it would be a better idea to try to find a new home in the Lake-Lehman School District because, supposedly, property taxes are lower there than they are in the Dallas School District, and your kids would be receiving a good education at either school. If private/parochial schools are your desire (which I personally think would be a waste of money with good public schools, but I digress), then you could send your children to Wyoming Seminary in Kingston (about a 10- to 15-minute drive from most parts of the Back Mountain) or to Holy Redeemer High School in Downtown Wilkes-Barre (about a 15- to 20-minute drive from most parts as well).
Violent crime is nearly non-existent in the Back Mountain, but the rare non-random violent cases that DO arise are often shocking and garner national media recognition (Google Hugo Selenski or Brian Kocis to see what I'm talking about). Property crime is below-average as well, but it DOES exist; the police departments in the Back Mountain just tend to not report it in the newspapers (I have my own theory about real estate valuation collusion there, but I won't get into that). Basically just don't be stupid and feel like you can leave your new BMW in the driveway unlocked with a Garmin and iPhone sitting in the front passenger seat as you vacation. Otherwise bored juvenile delinquents (there's admittedly not a lot of nightlife in the Back Mountain for teens, hence the need to drive to Wilkes-Barre), have been known to smash mailboxes, toilet-paper houses, and other stupid things to amuse themselves. Take any normal and ordinary precautions one would normally take in any area, and you'll be fine. I can't remember the last time someone was randomly murdered in ALL of Luzerne County, which can be very violent in certain pockets, let alone the Back Mountain, which is the county's most affluent area.
Housing prices are high in the area (although people from NYC/NJ/SEPA laugh at what we in NEPA call "high prices"). An average Back Mountain home would probably run you around $175,000-$225,000 for anything decent and not requiring updating with the newer constructions generally ranging from $275,000-$600,000+ (there are numerous seven-figure properties in the Back Mountain as well if you can afford that). The housing variety is generally comprised of either subdivision-living (ranging from 1970s-era ranchers and bi-levels during the post-flood rush to the Back Mountain on up to high-end brand new townhouse complexes). There are some "gems" to be found as well---nice homes on acreage outside of subdivisions with room to breathe (EnyaGirl on our forum bought one of these and seems to be pretty happy living in Dallas Twp.). There's an air of snootiness and "one-upping" in some pockets of the Back Mountain (some of the areas near Goodleigh Manor and off of Sutton Road come to mind), but overall most people in the Back Mountain fit one of a few demographics:
Those in the first "rush" who fled the valley floor in the wake of the masisvely destructive 1972 Hurricane Agnes flood, seeking higher ground with their newfound fear of the river's fury.
Those who have been moving to the Back Mountain from the 1990s-Present from Wilkes-Barre as they don't want to raise their families in the city given the cyclical crime waves that have hit on-and-off over the past 15 years.
Transplants from other areas (probably not unlike yourselves) attracted by the good school ratings, housing quality, proximity to Wilkes-Barre, semi-rural atmosphere, etc.
I'm sure there are also plenty of Back Mountain "natives" left as well---those who have lived there for several generations prior to the 1972 post-flood building boom---but they are now vastly outnumbered by the newcomers. There is some quiet resentment amongst these natives about how the newcomers "destroyed" the once-rural and pristine atmosphere of the Back Mountain as it has now transitioned into a traditional suburban area, but they know they are vastly outnumbered, so they've quieted down in recent years.
My one personal plea to you though as I echo some of the "native" complaints would be to please consider purchasing an existing home first before tearing down more trees to build a new home. There are plenty of newer constructions available right now on the market at reasonable prices that can't be sold due to a "glut" in that particular area, hence why I don't understand why so many still build more and more and more assuming "if you build it, they will come." I still don't know of anyone who lives in Yalick Farms, a "smart-growth" community between Dallas and Harvey's Lake that has been aggressively marketing their complex with what appears to be limited success.
I also forgot to mention that traffic, while tame by the standards of newcomers, is very heavy by local standards during rush-hour along Route 309 that links the Back Mountain to Wilkes-Barre/Kingston. The lights through the Back Mountain (at least in my experiences) are not very well synchronized, so this tends to bunch everyone up needlessly and encourages road rage and reckless driving. Before much more growth occurs out there Route 309 should be widened from four to six lanes OR a "bypass" should be built that would give people a second viable commuting option between the Back Mountain suburbs and valley floor cities. PennDOT is currently finishing up the design stages for a new roundabout/rotary that will ease congestion in Downtown Dallas (where five or six streets all convene in a terrible design), but traffic will be considerably worse 5-10 years from now as more people continue to move out there if something isn't done to help alleviate the rush-hour congestion outbound (towards Wilkes-Barre) from around 7-8 AM and inbound (away from Wilkes-Barre) from around 3:30 PM-5:30 PM. Accidents will become more commonplace, and road rage/speeding will occur when people try to compensate for lost time sitting in traffic.
What the locals won't tell you (rightfully so as they want to preserve them for their own benefit) is that there are "shortcuts" here and there to avoid taking 309 exclusively through the Back Mountain and even all the way to Wilkes-Barre, but if you could learn how to successfully incorporate those into your commutes then driving will be a breeze.
Ideally too the Back Mountain needs a "town center" so that everyone wouldn't necessarily be forced to head to Wilkes-Barre/Kingston for everything. Main Street in Downtown Dallas is laughable at only one block long (if even that), so either extending that existing downtown district longer or perhaps even creating a new mixed-use center would be in order. I'm moving to Reston, Virginia in a little over a week-and-a-half, and I'll be moving within walking distance of this:
There are high-rise buildings with ground-level stores and restaurants, offices in the mid-stories, and then apartments/condos with impressive views in the upper levels. There's also a movie theater, ice skating rink, farmers' market, library, community center, and many other amenities. As of right now doing this all in the Back Mountain requires you to drive all over the blessed creation to get from Point A to Point B, and while perhaps the skyscrapers that are in Reston wouldn't be feasible in the Back Mountain, something on a smaller profile would be. I know they've tried doing this with Yalick Farms with their condo/retail clustering, but I don't see much progress occurring there (funding problems?)
If there was ever a bad accident that closed Route 309 inbound on a Friday afternoon, most people in the Back Mountain would have to sit in and watch TV all night because they wouldn't be able to easily get to Wilkes-Barre for the movie theater, ethnic restaurants, Kirby Center, arena, etc. It's not a good idea in the long-term to continue to only have ONE primary artery in and out of the Back Mountain, and I'm sure our members from out there would agree that being "cut off" like that would be a major inconvenience.
I moved to Dallas a little over a year ago and love it. Paul is right on about everything he said, except we agree to disagree on the "Traffic". I agree that one day if the population out here continues to increase something will have to be done to expand 309 through the back mountain, but as of right now, "traffic" means sitting for 15 seconds longer at a red light...I would not even consider it traffic compared to what I dealt with in NJ and the Philly area where I moved from.
I agree about the lack of "center of town" here, and I do hope they do something about that one day. In the meantime, I don't mind at all the quick 15 min. drive into Wilkes Barre for any of my major shopping/entertainment needs. I've learned those back roads Paul mentioned, so if I want to avoid the Cross Valley (which I've never really seen "backed up") I can if I wanted to. I like being that close to a city, but yet not so close. I feel like it's the perfect combination of rural/city suburbs. I live on a dirt road on about 8 acres, but turn the corner from me and there are several brand new what I like to call "cookie cutter" homes that are very pricey. You can go from one street with houses practically right on top of one another to a large beautiful farm and houses that are acres apart, so it has something to offer for different tastes. I don't have kids, so the schools don't really matter to me, however I moved here knowing it was a good area BECAUSE of the very high school taxes.
Some businesses in town include:
Restaurants:
Metro Bar & Grill (a trendy sports bar catering more to the younger crowd; they have live music, large screen tv's, excellent food)
Shapes - gym
Pickett's Charge (haven't been there yet, but supposedly it's really good..family owned restaurant)
Fire & Ice - new, moderately priced, more on the gourmet end place.
Lakeside Cafe - Quaint little place with delicious breakfast and lunch.
Asaki- Japanese Habachi...very good
Dino's, Three Guys, Januzzi's, Grotto and several other pizza places (including a Dominoes)
Castle Inn - they host a Murder Mystery dinner that I have yet to try
Really Cooking - Classic comfort food with a contemporary twist
Bagel Art Bakery - best bagel outside of NJ I've been able to find.
Peking Chef- really good sit-down or take-out Chinese
Your typical fast food joints: McD's, BK, Wendy's, Dunkin Donuts, Dominoes, Friendly's
On Harvey's Lake there are a few good places as well, including the Lake Bistro, Lakeside Skillet, Grotto, and Jones' Potato Pancake stand (a must have)
Banking/Investing/Insurance/Real Estate offices:
You will find here: Edward Jones Investments, PNC Bank, M&T Bank, Wachovia, Citizen's Bank, First Liberty, State Farm, Century 21, Lewith & Freeman, Classic Properties, and a host of others.
Other/specialty stores:
Ye Olde Clock & Gift Shoppe (really unique gifts)
Hallmark
Birds Unlimited (bird feeders, seed, etc.)
Agway
Hoof & Paw (pet store and groomer) There are several other "pet spas" out here as well.
Bathologie - Never been inside, but I think they have cosmetics and things of that nature?
Outrageous Cafe - adorable little cafe- they host book clubs, sell very unique jewelry and yummy treats
Gertrude Hawk - chocolate store...need I say more?
Valentines - jewelry store
Fino's Pharmacy
Cook's Pharmacy
Rite Aid
Walgreens
CVS (24 hours)
There are a few other little specialty shops that I can't remember the name of right now.
Radio Shak
Two different grocery stores, including Weis Markets which was just recently renovated and expanded, and Thomas' which is brand new and just opened.
Serenity Wellness Spa - Affordable really good massage.
The above are just the businesses that I could think of off the top of my head. Hmm, if I could think of anything more to say, I will make a follow-up post.
I'll just add a few personal touches on top of Enya's excellent run-down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnyaGirl
Some businesses in town include:
Restaurants:
Metro Bar & Grill (a trendy sports bar catering more to the younger crowd; they have live music, large screen tv's, excellent food) I've been meaning to try this place out for quite some time, and hopefully the fact that I'm moving next week along with your excellent review will spark the fire under my derriere to scope it out.
Shapes - gym
Pickett's Charge (haven't been there yet, but supposedly it's really good..family owned restaurant) I've been here and can attest for the nice, cozy, "mom-and-pop" feel of the place. I've only ever eaten breakfast here, but I've never been disappointed. The prices are reasonable too.
Fire & Ice - new, moderately priced, more on the gourmet end place.
Lakeside Cafe - Quaint little place with delicious breakfast and lunch.
Asaki- Japanese Habachi...very good
Dino's, Three Guys, Januzzi's, Grotto and several other pizza places (including a Dominoes) Three Guy's has some great chicken wing pizza!
Castle Inn - they host a Murder Mystery dinner that I have yet to tryWe did it once I think back in 2006 or 2007 and really enjoyed ourselves. It's a good change of pace from the usual dinner/movie.
Really Cooking - Classic comfort food with a contemporary twist
Bagel Art Bakery - best bagel outside of NJ I've been able to find.
Peking Chef- really good sit-down or take-out Chinese
Your typical fast food joints: McD's, BK, Wendy's, Dunkin Donuts, Dominoes, Friendly's Surprisingly enough though with all of the yuppies in parts of the Back Mountain the Starbuck's failed.
On Harvey's Lake there are a few good places as well, including the Lake Bistro, Lakeside Skillet, Grotto, and Jones' Potato Pancake stand (a must have)
Ah! Some Choclates: I just wanted to add this place in as well as my friend has just turned me on to it. It's a cute little cafe and chocolate shop along Overbrook Road, right next to the overpass over Route 309. The past two times I've been there I've enjoyed a half-sandwich of toasted ham & brie, a soup, an ample serving of ranch Doritos, and I think also a pickle for just $7 or $8. Not a bad cheap way for a friend and I to spend lunch for $20, including gratuity.
Banking/Investing/Insurance/Real Estate offices:
You will find here: Edward Jones Investments, PNC Bank, M&T Bank, Wachovia, Citizen's Bank, First Liberty, State Farm, Century 21, Lewith & Freeman, Classic Properties, and a host of others.
Other/specialty stores:
Ye Olde Clock & Gift Shoppe (really unique gifts)
Hallmark
Birds Unlimited (bird feeders, seed, etc.) My dad still loves the squirrel-proof bird-feeder I bought him here for Christmas 2008 (and it really DOES work!) The woman who was there that night (I think she was the owner) was incredibly helpful and knowledgeable.
Agway
Hoof & Paw (pet store and groomer) There are several other "pet spas" out here as well.
Bathologie - Never been inside, but I think they have cosmetics and things of that nature? Yes. They specialize in soaps and hygiene-related products. A female friend of mine brought me in there, and I left feeling ten times less masculine. LOL!
Outrageous Cafe - adorable little cafe- they host book clubs, sell very unique jewelry and yummy treats Another nice spot, and I believe they are WiFi-accessible for those with laptops. The atmosphere here is similar to that of Ah! Some Chocolates.
Gertrude Hawk - chocolate store...need I say more? You should have said a YUMMY chocolate store!
Valentines - jewelry store
Fino's Pharmacy
Cook's Pharmacy
Rite Aid
Walgreens
CVS (24 hours)
There are a few other little specialty shops that I can't remember the name of right now.
Radio Shak
Two different grocery stores, including Weis Markets which was just recently renovated and expanded, and Thomas' which is brand new and just opened.
Serenity Wellness Spa - Affordable really good massage.
The above are just the businesses that I could think of off the top of my head. Hmm, if I could think of anything more to say, I will make a follow-up post.
Thank you both so much for all of the information - it will be very helpful to us if we do in fact relocate! We may have more questions after my husband reads it and if you have anything else to add, please keep posting and I will keep checking! To ScranBarre: good luck with you move!
Thank you both so much for all of the information - it will be very helpful to us if we do in fact relocate! We may have more questions after my husband reads it and if you have anything else to add, please keep posting and I will keep checking! To ScranBarre: good luck with you move!
Thank you! I wish you well on your impending relocation as well. You've found one of the best-kept forums on all of City-Data, so even in my absence you'll be in great hands with any further inquiries you may have about NEPA.
Thank you both so much for all of the information - it will be very helpful to us if we do in fact relocate! If you have anything else to add, please keep posting and I will keep checking! To ScranBarre: good luck with you move!
Wow enya and ScranBarre! You guys are great at this stuff.
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