African-American Woman Slain by Scranton Police (Pittsburgh, Wilkes-Barre: apartments, loft, how much)

[thecoalman]

Originally Posted by The Commish

Wrong.

It's hard to come to a conclusion until they release the investigation. This whole "have to be there" line of thinking is a bit too deferential to perpetrators of violence. It's safe to make reasonable conclusions based on the evidence that the report will discuss. A conclusion in this case doesn't turn on some intangible fact that's incapable of being included in the report. The police have standards for the use of deadly force, and it's not impossible to determine whether the victim's conduct justified the use of deadly force.

I don't entirely agree or disagree with that but the very best written or spoken words cannot entirely convey a situation like this. Then you let some lawyer in on the situation and the facts are suddenly fit into their own agenda. This is a very emotional situation and the instinct for survival kicks in. You have people that need to make split second life and death decisions. Ultimately they need to err on the side of caution to protect themselves, fellow officers and the general public.

It's very easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, an perfect example is the original post here. It's quite inflammatory yet the only thing he knows is that some cops shot a black woman and we have suggestions of racism, and a black eye.

Being a cop is not easy a job, as with any occupation you have good ones and bad ones. At the very least they deserve the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

[BLUEDIAMOND64]

Originally Posted by The Commish

Wrong.

It's hard to come to a conclusion until they release the investigation. This whole "have to be there" line of thinking is a bit too deferential to perpetrators of violence. It's safe to make reasonable conclusions based on the evidence that the report will discuss. A conclusion in this case doesn't turn on some intangible fact that's incapable of being included in the report. The police have standards for the use of deadly force, and it's not impossible to determine whether the victim's conduct justified the use of deadly force.

Maybe I said it wrong. I meant being there as a trained police officer who is trained in the use of deadly physical force. Right away, like the coalman said we have Monday Morning Quarterbacks. And, whether the person had mental problems or not does not make any differenence on whether police officers decide to use deadly physical force. If the police officers lives or the lives of others were in immediate danger then the investigation would reveal that there was justification.

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by The Commish

Wrong.

It's hard to come to a conclusion until they release the investigation. This whole "have to be there" line of thinking is a bit too deferential to perpetrators of violence. It's safe to make reasonable conclusions based on the evidence that the report will discuss. A conclusion in this case doesn't turn on some intangible fact that's incapable of being included in the report. The police have standards for the use of deadly force, and it's not impossible to determine whether the victim's conduct justified the use of deadly force.

Wow, you think you're right about everything. You're so quick to point out when someone is wrong. Do you believe you're right about everything? You weren't there and neither was I, so we don't know what really happened. None of my business and I really don't care.

[scrantonluna]

This is NOT a racial issue.

Mentally unstable woman rushes police with knife. Woman is told to stop. Woman is shot before she can harm officers.

End of story.

[Jane72]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

Well it looks like NEPA might be getting yet ANOTHER major media "black" eye (with special emphasis upon "black"), and sadly, once again, racism might be a factor. While I think we had all best reserve total judgment until all of the details of this case are out what we DO know, objectively, is that Brenda Williams, 52, of Scranton was wielding a knife and was shot to death by a group of Scranton police officers. Ms. Williams has a history of mental illness. This is the third fatal shooting by Scranton city police officers since 2002; the other two were found to be "justified" (even though in a May 2004 incident an innocent person was shot to death).

A lot of people are outraged by this incident, as there are already about three dozen comments posted on the web site of the Times-Tribune. About 1/3 support the officers while the majority feel as if excessive force was used. I'm inclined to agree with the latter. There were a group of officers facing this woman. There was no reason why they all had to shoot her to death multiple times because she was holding a knife. I'm still uncertain as to why they couldn't have used a taser or shot her in an extremity, where she might have had a chance of survival.

As expected people are now pulling the "race" card as well, since all of the cops are white (are there even any black cops on the city's force?!) and the deceased is black. Some claim that if Williams were Caucasian she wouldn't have been gunned down, but I'm inclined to side with the officers now UNTIL an investigation is completed. After all, if you had someone with mental illness charging at you with a knife, you might, in the heat of the moment, react in the same manner as they did. I still think they should have used a Taser, but what do I know?

Well, as long as they didn't shoot her in the back while she was running away.
That sort of thing happens a lot in my city, and that's the sort of thing that really gets people of all races inflamed.

I don't think anyone begrudges the police the right to use lethal force in protecting themselves from knife-wielding assailants.
The problem arises when they shoot unarmed young black men, or those who are trying to flee.

[wanneroo]

I don't think race has anything to do with it and it inflames me every time something like this happens the lefties automatically assume it was racially motivated. It is disrespectful to police officers of all races.

I do some occasional training of police officers and since they do that everyday for their JOB, I tend to air on the side of them.

I know of a few people in recent times that were confronted with a knife and were killed before they really knew what happened, so all this stuff about going for tasers and shooting people in the legs is from people that have no idea what the hell they are talking about.

[LIMAMA4]

Why is it that every time a perpetrator is shot by a police officer of another race, it is AUTOMATICALLY, a race issue????????????? I don't get. This really needs to stop!

[NYRangers 2008]

Originally Posted by scrantonluna

This is NOT a racial issue.

Mentally unstable woman rushes police with knife. Woman is told to stop. Woman is shot before she can harm officers.

End of story.

I agree. The media loves to make a story out of nothing.

[SteelCityRising]

Look, people, it's obvious that some of you misunderstood me, but what should I expect? I posted this immediately after reading the dozens of knee-jerk comments on the web site of the Scranton Times-Tribune newspaper in reference to the rather detail-deprived article. As I said I CAN NOT form a judgment one way or the other yet without knowing all of the facts involved.

Was the woman charging at an officer? We don't know.
Was she just saying threatening things while pointing a knife at an officer? We don't know.
Did she have to be shot MULTIPLE TIMES? We don't know.
Was race a factor? We don't know.
Could the officers have instead used a Taser to subdue her? We don't know.


There are too many variables here, but I was just trying to provide a brief synopsis of the situation, and race being a potential motivating factor CAN NOT be ruled out given the rampant homophobia/racism that we all know exists in Coal Country. It's entirely possible the officers could have all been African-American and shot a Caucasian knife-wielding woman to death.

It's all conjecture until we learn more. Thank you, though, for jumping down my throat. MY PERSONAL OPINION is that Tasering a woman holding a knife should have easily subdued her. MY PERSONAL OPINION is that this mentally-ill woman was failed by the system intended to ensure her own safety. MY PERSONAL OPINION is that race was NOT a motivating factor here. MY PERSONAL OPINION is that, just as with the other two recent incidents in Scranton of an officer killing someone (including the one where an innocent bystander died), this will also be ruled as a "justified" use of force. MY PERSONAL OPINION is that someone in the neighborhood, who, according to the article, witnessed this woman behaving errantly earlier in the day SHOULD HAVE notified police, who then should have notified someone equipped and trained to deal with the mentally-deranged.

Saying "you weren't there so you can't have an opinion" is a typical answer I'd expect to hear from some in Scranton. In that case let's let the Scranton P.D. shoot ANYONE commiting ANY crime under the premise of "he/she/it charged right at me", and then it will stand because "we weren't there" to offer a counter-argument. While I have nothing but the utmost respect for police, considering this is the THIRD FATAL SHOOTING made by a city cop in the past several years this is something that needs to be taken seriously.

[Matt in Taylor]

you dont shoot someone in the leg. you never point a gun at something you do not intend to kill.