African-American Woman Slain by Scranton Police (area, distance, charge)

[wanneroo]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

Well, they are cops. That's their job. Their job is inherently dangerous. I don't want to wrestle anyone down to the ground - that's why I'm not a cop.

Guns, not always effective or accurate and not to be used to counter mentally ill women --- esp those who are what 1 woman against 4 men?

Sure their job is dangerous, but there is no need to make it even more dangerous than it already is.

When someone has a knife it doesn't take much for it to end up in someone in the wrong spot and that is it. Bulletproof vests don't stop knives either.

Guns are effective and accurate in trained hands and I'm sure the cops didn't have time to read this womans bio before the incident.

[scrantonluna]

Originally Posted by weluvpa

Thats crap, I shoot reguarly and I use a 9mm on the 50yd rifle range and consistantly put a 4" group on a 6" target at 50 yards. 25 yrds I put up a 3" group and on a standard pistol range I can shoot all day long on a 3" target and very rarely miss. Thats with a compact 9mm and full size all steel Browning 9mm. Center mass is where people are trained to shot, thats where you will stop someone the quickiest and keep them from hurting you.

Also Scranton cops carry the Glock 17 which the largest service pistol that Glock makes in a 9mm, it is not by any means considered a short barreled pistol or even classified as a compact.

My son who is 11 can shoot the 9mm all day at the range and is capable of putting up 6" groups at 15yrds on a 12" target and he is 11, he can even accurately handle the full steel Browning and has shot a 1911 45.

My wife also shoots and has no problem with accuracy on a pistol range with a 9mm or a 45.

You make it sound like they holding a howizter in their hands...

I don't know what these guys did or didn't do because I have been out of town, I'll follow up on the story.....

At least be accurate in your description of shooting a pistol.

How did we go from a shooting in Scranton to sexual orientation? and What does it have to do with this thread?

Firing a weapon on the range, and in the field during an emotionally charged situation, are two completely different things. Even good shots can be awful under poor conditions.

Police have to qualify with their firearms on a yearly basis, but not at great distance. They are also trained to shoot only center mass, or in case of body armor, a head shot. The point is to stop the action, not try to only wound the target.

[W-B proud]

I still say that it is too early to come to a conclusion on what happen here. There should be an investigation by an outside agency. I don't think it should be handled by Andy Jarbola, and the Dunmore State Police (everyone knows everyone around here). This would have been a perfect scenario for non-lethal force like a tazer gun ect. IMO, but what do I know, I wasn't there. Hindsight is always 20/20. If there can even be a silver lining to this tragedy, I'd hope that all area police forces are now trained, and equipt with non-lethal options like tazers, or bean bags. I think police in general are good people and do a very excellent job. They do jobs, and put up with things everyday that nobody wants to deal with. They routinely have to wrestle with drunks, get spit on by drunks, get punched and hit, have to break up countless domestic disturbances, all in a days/nights work, and you think you had a bad day at work?! And to top it off they hardly ever get commended for keeping us safe, and dealing with the most dangerous situations so we don't have too, but as soon as anything goes wrong everyone wants to line up to ridicule them, and put them down. It is truely a thankless job, and they do not get payed nearly enough for what they have to do. We should all thank our police officers for what they do for us IMO.

[retrovintage]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

Why couldn't they just taser her? Why kill her?

Although it has been answered, the major majority of the SPD do not have tasers. The ones that do, purchased them themselves. And no, the ones that do have them, were not there that night.

I am guessing it was not a big safety issue on the 'to do' or 'purchase' list of Hayes and the Mayor. Similar to the lack of safety equipment with the SFD.

[Magritte25]

Originally Posted by scrantonluna

I don't know if just your comment is ignorant, or if you are ignorant in general. There's a big difference
between taking physical control of an individual and taking control of an individual who is armed with a
weapon.

Anyone who has ever worked with mentally ill people knows that they can have super human strength
and zero pain compliance; probably 90% of police training is based on pain compliance and it's useless in
these situations.

These are police officers, not jihadists bent on suicide. I believe they have a right to life as much as
anyone. What if this woman encountered someone without training and who was unarmed? This
situation could have been a lot worse.

The main problem here is that I believe Scranton does not have any sort of a trained negotiator or
equivalent for these types of situations. So even if the officers decided to retreat and wait it out,
there was no one else coming with a higher skill level in mental illness.

Everything I've heard tells me that these officers did everything they could with what they had
available to them. They followed their training, which is what the department wants; they do not
want rogue cops who pull stunts like on TV - shooting an arm, leg, etc. The woman should have
been in a facility anyway. It's nice to think that everyone can be independent and what we want
them to be, but then you have situations like this where everyone's life is endangered. It's not fair
for anyone involved.

I have worked with the mentally ill before. I also know how much physical training cops have. Never ceases to amaze me how people instantly resort to namecalling when they don't agree. LOL

They have a right to life, but their job is inherently life threatening - *and that is what they sign on for*.

I believe the main problem is that too often cops are too gun happy and also that funding doesn't allow responsible, intelligent means of policing - IE: tasers, rubber bullets and a negotiator.

Why is one a rogue cop who shoots to injure but not the one who shoots to kill? I agree the woman should have been in a facility. But, guess we don't have to worry about that now, do we?

[Magritte25]

Originally Posted by wanneroo

Sure their job is dangerous, but there is no need to make it even more dangerous than it already is.

When someone has a knife it doesn't take much for it to end up in someone in the wrong spot and that is it. Bulletproof vests don't stop knives either.

Guns are effective and accurate in trained hands and I'm sure the cops didn't have time to read this womans bio before the incident.

Really? Bullet proof vests can stop a speeding bullet but not a woman trying to stab you? Wow. I never knew that.

Again, the woman did not have a gun. Why do you keep bringing that into the conversation? The cops shouldn't have to read someone's bio. They shouldn't shoot to kill -- esp a one woman with a knife when there were several of them.

[BLUEDIAMOND64]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

I'll have to ask you to get real if you believe cops never use deadly physical force when it is wholly unneccessary.

The woman had a *knife* not a gun. Why are you changing the story?

I am real, I've done the job, you have not. We are talking about this situation. Are you aware of how fast it takes to advance when someone is threatening with a knife? You seem to be a bleeding liberal and no matter what the police did in this situation it will never be to your liking.

[The Commish]

Originally Posted by TheHighHat

You seem to be a bleeding liberal

A bleeding liberal?

Is that a bit of freudian slip from an ex-cop?

[Magritte25]

Originally Posted by the commish

a bleeding liberal?

Is that a bit of freudian slip from an ex-cop?

:d lol

[BLUEDIAMOND64]

Originally Posted by Magritte25

:d lol

What is the matter? You can not fight your own battles? You seem to have an opinion on everything and come off knowing everything about every subject. It is probably not your opinion that is irratating, but the way you come off.