Backyard Fencing--What's the Neighborly Option? (Arlington, Winchester: how much, house, neighborhoods)

[Carlingtonian]

The backyard of the house my wife and I are buying has a split-rail fence on two sides, each owned by the respective neighbor. (I'm positive on this.) We're going to get a large dog after we move in. We don't want him to be able to stick his nose through the fence or jump over it easily, so we're thinking of putting in a slightly taller (maybe 5-foot) cedar picket fence around our backyard.

We could of course just build it just inside our property line. However, I think the existing fences may be right ON the line. Putting in a fence right next to another fence would be ugly (mainly for the neighbors). But just as importantly, we shouldn't have to cede the use of any of our backyard. If theirs gets to be on the line itself, why shouldn't ours? But of course, there can only be one fence there.

My first instinct is to (after we've said hello and gotten off on the right foot) let each neighbor know of our plans, so that they can choose whether to remove their fence first, after which we can put ours in its place. Or they could choose not to move theirs, and we'll put ours right alongside. But if theirs is on the line, I'm pretty sure we'd have the right to ask them to remove theirs or move it to be fully inside their property.

I know that being on good terms with neighbors is worth its weight in gold. And we want to do what's neighborly-but we don't want to sacrifice unduly or cede the use of any land that belongs to us. What should we do?

Thanks for the advice!

[JfromReston]

VA has state code that covers fences
LIS > Code of Virginia
LIS > Code of Virginia > 55-321
LIS > Code of Virginia > 55-318
LIS > Code of Virginia > 55-319
LIS > Code of Virginia > 55-320

[ChristineVA]

I was the first in my group to build a fence (dogs too). I was told by my fence builder that the fence must be on the property line. Not inside it and not over it but on it. He had to go the county and get a copy of my plat and find the property line. Most neighborhoods and apparently, PWC, don't want two fences running parallel with a gap in between (makes for nasty weeds and lord knows what else in between). I don't know how much this is enforced by the county but, certainly, HOAs probably have issues with it.

I would suggest that explain your dog issues and that you need a more protective fence. I'm thinking that they just need to remove their split rail portion.

[Carlingtonian]

Thank you both for the helpful responses.

The VA code seems to deal only with situations where there isn't yet a fence. In this case, there is; it's just not what we would need. I don't think they should have to pay because of our future dog.

There is no HOA, by the way.

I agree that having two fences with a gap is a bad solution--even if it's not illegal. (Not sure in Arlington County.)

If I was in the neighbors' shoes, I would be annoyed if the new people wanted me to pay anything, even if their new fence would benefit me by being newer or more attractive/effective.

So I'm not really thinking of asking them to pay. I am, however, wondering if I can expect them to remove their fence if it's right on the boundary. If it is, then surely I get to put in our fence inside our property line--right? It just can't be that they get to keep their little fence and yet we can't put in one that would actually keep the dog in--mainly to protect their kids from being bitten (though we don't plan on getting a mean dog).

[ChristineVA]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

Thank you both for the helpful responses.

The VA code seems to deal only with situations where there isn't yet a fence. In this case, there is; it's just not what we would need. I don't think they should have to pay because of our future dog.

There is no HOA, by the way.

I agree that having two fences with a gap is a bad solution.

If I was in the neighbors' shoes, I would be annoyed if the new people wanted me to pay anything, even if their new fence would benefit me by being newer or more attractive/effective.

So I'm not really thinking of asking them to pay. I am, however, wondering if I can expect them to remove their fence if it's right on the boundary. If it is, then surely I get to put in our fence inside our property line--right? It just can't be that they get to keep their little fence and yet we can't put in one that would actually keep the dog in--mainly to protect their kids from being bitten (though we don't plan on getting a mean dog).

I agree, I would never ask anyone for any money. I put up four sides of a fence and three of my neighbors benefitted from this. I didn't care. I needed a fence and that was that. On the other hand, the day I decide to take it down, it's my choice.

Now, I am a reasonable person so if I was the neighbors with the split rail, I wouldn't have any problem having my split rail removed (I might ask YOU to do it) so that you could put up your protective fence. But, to be honest, there are too many jerks out there that would love to give you a problem over this. If they do, I would not get into a snit about it but I would advise you to put a roll of protective (chicken) wire on your side of the fence to keep your dog from poking its head through or walking through the rails into the other yards. And just pray that your dog is not a jumper.

[Carlingtonian]

Thanks, Christine. Hopefully, they'll be sensible, amiable people who will not be so self-destructive as to be jerky with us, the new neighbors! But you're right; there are people like that.

If they did object to our new fence, would I be legally allowed to staple the chicken wire to their fence on our side, as you suggest? Seems like it would be the only reasonable option left, other than ploinking in the biggest, tallest fence I could find just inside the boundary on our side--if Arlington allows that.

And I'd be happy to remove their fence if they play nice!

We're wanting to get a German Shepherd; I've read that they can jump over anything shorter than 6 feet. Hopefully our dog won't have any temptation to try to jump over a 5-foot fence.

[South Jersey Styx]

First, find out if it is an actual requirement to put your fence exactly on your property line. If not, think about just lining it up against the split rail fence. I mean, it's only a little bit of space we're talking about, right? Not a few feet? That way no one has to take anything down. And if some weeds grow between the fences, well then -- that's what a weed whacker is for. Just be glad it's not a tree or large shrub with roots growing between the fences.

Definitely greet your neighbors and let them know of your plans. You can also let them know that your survey revealed that their fences actually sit on your property line, but it's not a big deal to you, yadda yadda yadda. Better to have good neighborly relations than people bitter on both sides.

Up in our town in NJ, people line up picket cedar fences against existing chain link fences all the time. But that's allowed in that town. In my house here in Winchester, VA the previous owner of my house built a fence a few inches into the next door neighbor's property. I met this neighbor and he said he approved of it when it occurred. Now I don't know what will happen one day in the future if a new owner of that house gets real sticky about my fence -- I suppose I could grandfather it in but who knows.

BTW, get a 6' fence or taller if you can. 5' is a little short. Better for you and the neighbors especially if your dog is big. Some people have an issue with large dogs who look like they can jump a tall fence. Also, don't forget to check with your town/county about permits and height restrictions. Good luck with your project!

[Carlingtonian]

Thanks for your thoughts, Styx! I agree--good neighborly relations are crucial, and I will definitely make sure to get on friendly terms with them before I broach the fencing subject.

Sounds like I definitely need to find out what the law is in Arlington on the gap thing. (And yup, we're talking inches, not feet.) Even if a gap would be legal, I'd really like to avoid having one. I think I would ask the neighbors if they prefer we put the new fence in place of theirs or next to it, just in case they'd be OK with the former, because I'd rather not have to deal with the weeds. (They'd be hard to get at with the whacker.)

I hear what you're saying on the fence height. Thing is, a six-foot fence can really look unfriendly--like we want nothing to do with the neighbors. I'm not sure how likely it is that the dog would actually try to jump over, unless the neighbors have a female German Shepherd! That said, I don't want them to be freaked out, so if adding a foot will keep everybody happy, I guess we'd do it.

[gingerbreadgirl]

Another solution might be to get an invisible fence. I know a lot of people object to these for various reasons, but if you use it in addition to the split rail fence, it might alleviate the need for the second fence. We have had one for many years, along with several dogs. It worked like a charm with 3 of the dogs, eventually, they didn't even need their collars on, they just knew where to stop. However, along came the 4th dog....(after the others went to the big dog park in the sky)...and he acts like it isn't even there. So you never know.

Just an idea to consider.

[Carlingtonian]

Thanks; that might be worth a shot. I wouldn't want to depend on it, though. Also, it wouldn't keep the dog from poking his snout between the fence rails--and one neighbor appears to have little kids.