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yes please. In the new TOD in Tysons, in a revived and densified Annandale, in a revived and densified Rte 1 corridor, in Baileys, etc. beyond fairfax in a revived and densified south arlington along the columbia Pike corridor.
The flip side of rural preservation is TOD growth. Thats what smart growth is all about.
What sort of housing would be in the new Tysons, densified Annandale/Route 1/Baileys/South Arlington?
I'm guessing -- and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong -- it'd be 1000-1500 square foot 2-3BR condos and townhouses and not a single family home under $1 million (well $800k along Route 1 outside the beltway) in sight. Lots of "first floor retail, second-Nth floor office/residential" buildings, I'm guessing, as well.
Plus lots and lots of buses and other transit options (I'm assuming Annandale is pretty low on the Metro to-go list, behind say Ft. Belvoir and improvements to the core.)
Problem is, folks seem to like space and they like single family homes. Hence, the growth of eastern Loudoun/western PWC/southern Fauquier/Stafford, and to some extent, Frederick/Warren/Spotsylvania.
I know I -- and definitely my wife -- do much better not hearing drunken/high/whatever arguments from our neighbors, like we did when we lived in our duplex in South Arlington. I will say that being bummed for money by new neighbors within four hours of meeting them killed off my civic spirit, as well as not having phone calls/emails returned by the civic association for my neighborhood (but they sure did cash my check!) It also made my opinion of smart growth sort of low.
I don't think I'm alone in having an unpleasant experience with duplex/TH/condo living in a less-than-fashionable area, and yes, it pretty much makes my view of smart growth -- i.e. essentially forcing more and more people live in similar conditions -- somewhat dim. Maybe if you -- and/or others who have thrived in a less-than-fashionable area -- could post a guide on "living in less than fashionable areas," it might be helpful to young couples/families looking to move to the area.
For the record (and to head off the most predictable avenue of opposition to this post) -- if I were strictly a poverty snob, I wouldn't have moved from Vienna to Leesburg.
. . .. If you did you would know that most of the county looks like this: . . . .
Cap Skins, love the photos and thanks for sharing! Reminds me of everything whenever I leave DC/NOVA and head home. The only other pic I can think of that would add to these are those oddly-marked black & white cows (around Berryville since I head into Winchester). The other morning, there were 3 of them perched on the top of a hill with a single tree and the sun (starting to rise), pinkish behind them and the mountains. It was beautiful. . . .
. . . I know I -- and definitely my wife -- do much better not hearing drunken/high/whatever arguments from our neighbors, like we did when we lived in our duplex in South Arlington. I will say that being bummed for money by new neighbors within four hours of meeting them killed off my civic spirit, as well as not having phone calls/emails returned by the civic association for my neighborhood (but they sure did cash my check!) It also made my opinion of smart growth sort of low.
I don't think I'm alone in having an unpleasant experience with duplex/TH/condo living in a less-than-fashionable area, and yes, it pretty much makes my view of smart growth -- i.e. essentially forcing more and more people live in similar conditions -- somewhat dim. Maybe if you -- and/or others who have thrived in a less-than-fashionable area -- could post a guide on "living in less than fashionable areas," it might be helpful to young couples/families looking to move to the area. . . .
I know what you mean. We moved into the historic district in Winchester and although it is a SFH, we are in here pretty close. It is a transitional neighborhood which often shows how much it has and has NOT [yet] transitioned. Our neighbors are a mix of younger folks in the IT, admin, govt, or medical field, retirees, or small business owners. But we also have some Section 8 residents here as well as houses where landlords rent out to, may I say, shady or questionable folks.
I know many people would NOT choose this neighborhood even though we love it here. Many families with young children often prefer the suburbs for several reasons but they also cannot afford these houses in the downtown area.
I agree that there should be some enlightenment on "living in less than fashionable areas," and not broad, generalized statements that could inform young couples/families moving into our area.
What sort of housing would be in the new Tysons, densified Annandale/Route 1/Baileys/South Arlington?
I'm guessing -- and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong -- it'd be 1000-1500 square foot 2-3BR condos and townhouses and not a single family home under $1 million (well $800k along Route 1 outside the beltway) in sight. Lots of "first floor retail, second-Nth floor office/residential" buildings, I'm guessing, as well.
I dont think the new dense housing in FFX will be a direct substitute for SFHs in Loudoun - but if folks buy SFHs in Fairfax instead of Loudoun, presumably that raises the prices of SFHs in FFX, and incents more people on the margin between buying a SFH and TH in FFX into buying a TH, and so on and so on.
Of course those people who switch to SFHs in FFX will either have to pay more, or buy older (for any given size SFH). Clearly having more SFHs built in Loudoun is to the advantage of folks who want to buy newish SFHs. All I'm saying is that there IS an answer to "where will these people go if there are growth limits in Loudoun" Its not a cost free answer, but its an answer. And the constraints are not congestion in FFX (which welcomes growth) but the ability of a built out county to accommodate more SFHs - smart growth will mean a shift in the densities at which we live. For any given population size, reserving rural land means that shift. I don't see any way around that math.
Loudoun people may not want any growth limits beyond the existing zoning. But IF they choose to try for them, the region can adapt.
Problem is, folks seem to like space and they like single family homes. Hence, the growth of eastern Loudoun/western PWC/southern Fauquier/Stafford, and to some extent, Frederick/Warren/Spotsylvania.
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yes. And they want less congestion, and they want to not spend money on transportation infrastructure, and they want to preserve rural land, and lots of other incompatible things.
I can't vote on Loudouns zoning. Clearly if Loudoun limits growth it will hurt some people. But it wont be the end of the world.
yes. And they want less congestion, and they want to not spend money on transportation infrastructure, and they want to preserve rural land, and lots of other incompatible things.
I can't vote on Loudouns zoning. Clearly if Loudoun limits growth it will hurt some people. But it wont be the end of the world.
You're right -- but it seems that by their actions, they view having a big home as more important than some degree of traffic (the growth of outer suburbs.) Folks who want land can have their acre in western Loudoun, Clarke, Warren, or the remaining rural parts of Frederick.
Or, as I put it on the LTM website, so how will the folks in Western Loudoun deal with their desires for low taxes, low growth, and being business friendly?
Hopefully the current crop of R's in Loudoun will be a bit less silly than Myers' crop -- I understand there were a fair number of sweetheart deals there.
I don't think I'm alone in having an unpleasant experience with duplex/TH/condo living in a less-than-fashionable area, and yes, it pretty much makes my view of smart growth -- i.e. essentially forcing more and more people live in similar conditions -- somewhat dim. Maybe if you -- and/or others who have thrived in a less-than-fashionable area -- could post a guide on "living in less than fashionable areas," it might be helpful to young couples/families looking to move to the area.
The TH development we live in has never, that I noticed, had a problems with noise, drunkenness, etc. We have families with young children, we have a bunch of younger professionals, a few retired people and empty nesters. Really nothing "low class" in the development. At all.
There ARE the day laborers by the 7/11 down the block. Most folks I think simply avoid walking there (people get two parking spaces, and with proximity to the beltway most people here are fairly auto oriented, Im afraid. I walk to the express bus and elsewhere. Ive never been hassled by the day laborers. Mostly they mind their business and wait to get work. One disadvantage is that the rest room at the Safeway is locked - but the managers there will always open it for customers.
At another state in our lives we lived in Park Center - there were plenty of professional people, and also a few on section 8. We simply were friendly to everyone and got along with everyone. And took any complaints to the (quite responsive) building management.
I dont know what guide is needed. Certainly the places we lived in this area were not as sketchy as a (more fashionable) area we lived in Baltimore, or as areas lots of younger people live in today in DC and elsewhere.
Of course FFX's smart growth policies will move ahead whether or not Loudoun limits growth. There is enough market demand for TOD in the region- plenty of people want it (and thread after thread here shows that, as well as the prices it commands). However IF Loudoun were, for its own reasons, to limit growth, we in FFX would be happy to take the overflow population. Whether the would be Loudoun buyers would be happy is another matter - but thats for Loudoun and its citizens and its bd of supervisors to address (or not) - its not FFX countys decision what Loudoun chooses to do about growth.
You're right -- but it seems that by their actions, they view having a big home as more important than some degree of traffic (the growth of outer suburbs.) Folks who want land can have their acre in western Loudoun, Clarke, Warren, or the remaining rural parts of Frederick.
Or, as I put it on the LTM website, so how will the folks in Western Loudoun deal with their desires for low taxes, low growth, and being business friendly?
Hopefully the current crop of R's in Loudoun will be a bit less silly than Myers' crop -- I understand there were a fair number of sweetheart deals there.
quite frankly, I have not heard that LC is seriously going to limit SFH construction east of Rte 15. I was simply answering your Q in #49, which I took as implying that growth limits in LC are a problem for FFX county. I understand there are arguments both ways on growth limits - costs to landowners who want their land to be saleable for development, and to would be home buyers (and to county tax revenues).
However a cost to FFX because you are imposing congestion on us, is NOT something you need to worry about. FFX is ready, willing and eager to accommodate growth (but since we are built out, obviously it will not be SFH growth)
The TH development we live in has never, that I noticed, had a problems with noise, drunkenness, etc. We have families with young children, we have a bunch of younger professionals, a few retired people and empty nesters. Really nothing "low class" in the development. At all.
There ARE the day laborers by the 7/11 down the block. Most folks I think simply avoid walking there (people get two parking spaces, and with proximity to the beltway most people here are fairly auto oriented, Im afraid. I walk to the express bus and elsewhere. Ive never been hassled by the day laborers. Mostly they mind their business and wait to get work. One disadvantage is that the rest room at the Safeway is locked - but the managers there will always open it for customers.
At another state in our lives we lived in Park Center - there were plenty of professional people, and also a few on section 8. We simply were friendly to everyone and got along with everyone. And took any complaints to the (quite responsive) building management.
I dont know what guide is needed. Certainly the places we lived in this area were not as sketchy as a (more fashionable) area we lived in Baltimore, or as areas lots of younger people live in today in DC and elsewhere.
Of course FFX's smart growth policies will move ahead whether or not Loudoun limits growth. There is enough market demand for TOD in the region- plenty of people want it (and thread after thread here shows that, as well as the prices it commands). However IF Loudoun were, for its own reasons, to limit growth, we in FFX would be happy to take the overflow population. Whether the would be Loudoun buyers would be happy is another matter - but thats for Loudoun and its citizens and its bd of supervisors to address (or not) - its not FFX countys decision what Loudoun chooses to do about growth.
To reply to your other post:
With the new board there certainly won't be SFH building limits east of 15 and quite possibly a relaxation of limits west of 15.
The concern with the last board (2004-08) was a number of sweetheart deals made that enriched the board members and close associates.
On to this post:
I'm assuming the day labourers would be more of a problem, if they are one at all, for the under-40 women than guys like us. I'm also going to guess some day labourer groups are more polite than others.
By a guide -- I hope to summarize why my sojourn in the "less fashionable" part of Northern Virginia seemed to fail miserably, nearly resulting in the breakup of my marriage and why yours -- and others' -- seem to thrive (I've mentioned the drug dealer across the street, the 10 to a house neighbours, and how eventually a family of immigrants began moving in on my street that didn't like anyone further out than their first cousins before, I believe. With that said -- I did not feel under direct physical threat, although my wife did feel threatened when a stranger knocked on the door and asked -- in a vaguely threatening manner -- for the previous owner of the house.
Such potential risks should not be glossed over when talking about the less fashionable parts of Northern Virginia; as I don't think anyone wants to live in an area like I did (Parkway, which is tucked between South Glebe, I-395, and Four Mile Run.)
Or, more succinctly, what did I do wrong and what did (and have) you done right?
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