State Supreme Court upholds decision to close Clifton Elementary

[cvc7171]

'Parents' or that coalition who is on some zealous drive to change our schools as they see fit, masqueraded as advocacy groups. What was her name again... Catherine Lorenze.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by cvc7171

'Parents' or that coalition who is on some zealous drive to change our schools as they see fit, masqueraded as advocacy groups. What was her name again... Catherine Lorenze.

Not quite following that post. Care to explain?

If I recall correctly, Catherine Lorenze was one of the supporters of FairGrade, which successfully lobbied to get the grading scale changed in FCPS so that FCPS students wouldn't be even further at a disadvantage when, for example, applying to college. I recently read that she's also the campaign manager for Louise Epstein, who is challenging Jane Strauss, the incumbent School Board member in the Dranesville District.

Lorenze also has a blog on issues relating to the public schools:

Red Apple Mom

She's obviously quite opinionated, but she's not a shill for either political party and I think a lot of parents care about the issues she discusses.

[michgc]

I feel bad for the Clifton parents. It's a shame that the town's only elementary school will close, especially against most residents' wishes. The longer I live here, the more I am dissatisfied with FCPS.

[Denton56]

Originally Posted by roninsedge

Yet another example of the removal of the human factor in decisions. I am saddened by this, but totally understand why the courts upheld the school board's decision. Maybe some generous benefactor will preserve the school for continued use as a community meeting place/hub.

Better yet, a private school that can't be closed on a whim. I know what some people are hoping that FCPS will let it be a charter school but the administration are such control freaks, I can't imagine them allowing ANY charter school, anywhere.

[Denton56]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Not quite following that post. Care to explain?

If I recall correctly, Catherine Lorenze was one of the supporters of FairGrade, which successfully lobbied to get the grading scale changed in FCPS so that FCPS students wouldn't be even further at a disadvantage when, for example, applying to college. I recently read that she's also the campaign manager for Louise Epstein, who is challenging Jane Strauss, the incumbent School Board member in the Dranesville District.

Lorenze also has a blog on issues relating to the public schools:

Red Apple Mom

She's obviously quite opinionated, but she's not a shill for either political party and I think a lot of parents care about the issues she discusses.

Good post. Louise has helped hundreds, if not thousands, of parents over the last 20 years. She will make a GREAT school board member, one who really cares about the students and the parents. She also a supporter of teachers, but FCPS administration? Not so much.

[Denton56]

Originally Posted by cvc7171

'Parents' or that coalition who is on some zealous drive to change our schools as they see fit, masqueraded as advocacy groups. What was her name again... Catherine Lorenze.

Huh? They ARE parents and they ARE advocates for parents and students. Teachers have their unions, er, ''associations'' and the school administration can do whatever they want in any school. It's about time that the parents and students had a group advocating for them! The school board sure doesn't care what parents want.

[stpickrell]

Originally Posted by JEB77

So why was tiny Vienna ES, with only 20 more students than Clifton, renovated just a few years earlier, and not shut down? Just as shutting Clifton down is now going to require FCPS to build costly additions at three existing schools, one could probably have built additions at Cunningham Park, Freedom Hill and Marshall Road ES and closed down Vienna ES. Maybe there's an answer, but Liz Bradsher decided to engage in personal attacks on Clifton residents rather than deal with the facts.

FWIW, Vienna ES is on public water; that was one of the concerns (unsafe well water @ Clifton ES) along with the increased cost of keeping Clifton open. My first thought was, admittedly, "Bunch of rich whiners," but they do have very good points about how the FCSB handled this -- and it seems the cost of keeping Clifton open wasn't *that* great. There could have been a better way of handling it.

I'd vote against Stu Gibson if I still lived in Vienna. However, I do have my suspicions about the opposition to the current FCPS regime, whether they have any ideas other than "cut spending," "cut teacher salaries," and "let them eat cake."

When the Clifton ES parents/advocates start grumbling about 'socio-economic engineering' they do start coming off as offputting, IMO. There's enough to oppose how the School Board has handled this on the facts alone; there's no need to open the race/class can of worms.

As for some insider wanting the land -- I'm not sure about that. It's not like you can buy the land for a song and then put up "Clifton Town Center" due to the Occuquan zoning restrictions. That'd have been more a concern if they had shut down Vienna ES.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by stpickrell

FWIW, Vienna ES is on public water; that was one of the concerns (unsafe well water @ Clifton ES) along with the increased cost of keeping Clifton open. My first thought was, admittedly, "Bunch of rich whiners," but they do have very good points about how the FCSB handled this -- and it seems the cost of keeping Clifton open wasn't *that* great. There could have been a better way of handling it.

I'd vote against Stu Gibson if I still lived in Vienna. However, I do have my suspicions about the opposition to the current FCPS regime, whether they have any ideas other than "cut spending," "cut teacher salaries," and "let them eat cake."

When the Clifton ES parents/advocates start grumbling about 'socio-economic engineering' they do start coming off as offputting, IMO. There's enough to oppose how the School Board has handled this on the facts alone; there's no need to open the race/class can of worms.

As for some insider wanting the land -- I'm not sure about that. It's not like you can buy the land for a song and then put up "Clifton Town Center" due to the Occuquan zoning restrictions. That'd have been more a concern if they had shut down Vienna ES.

There were concerns about the water at Clifton, but the engineers hired by FCSP determined that the water quality was fine shortly before the vote to close Clifton. FCPS sat on that information so that it wasn't readily available prior to the vote. It wasn't the information Liz Bradsher and Dean Tisdadt wanted to hear.

As to the "social engineering" comments by some Clifton parents, I agree with you completely, although - at least on message boards - I'm convinced that a lot of those comments were "planted" by those who wanted to close Clifton in order to portray the parents as elitists. Having said that, it's understandible that parents were frustrated with a proposal to close one of the highest-performing schools in the county, particularly when it played such an important role in the community. When all is said and done, I wonder how much - if any - money really will be saved by closing this school. In the short term, FCPS will have to spend millions of dollars to build additions at a minimum of three other elementary schools.

As to the platform of the "opponents" to the current FCPS regime, I don't think they're arguing to "cut teacher spending," but instead to cut out administrative positions. Admittedly, even that is far easier said than done (the devil is in the details), but most of the current crop of challengers would probably raise teacher salaries if they could, not cut them.

[stpickrell]

Originally Posted by JEB77

There were concerns about the water at Clifton, but the engineers hired by FCSP determined that the water quality was fine shortly before the vote to close Clifton. FCPS sat on that information so that it wasn't readily available prior to the vote. It wasn't the information Liz Bradsher and Dean Tisdadt wanted to hear.

As to the "social engineering" comments by some Clifton parents, I agree with you completely, although - at least on message boards - I'm convinced that a lot of those comments were "planted" by those who wanted to close Clifton in order to portray the parents as elitists. Having said that, it's understandible that parents were frustrated with a proposal to close one of the highest-performing schools in the county, particularly when it played such an important role in the community.

When all is said and done, I wonder how much - if any - money really will be saved by closing this school. In the short term, FCPS will have to spend millions of dollars to build additions at a minimum of three other elementary schools.

Good points all -- I would be *very* suspicious about message board posts from very new users. I'm still convinced that many extremists on one side or the other of any issue are trolls from the other side (e.g. the biggest racists/hicks will be plants from the NAACP and the biggest welfare state defenders will be plants from conservative groups.)

And yeah, the savings from closing Clifton ES would all get spent having to renovate the adjoining schools.