NOVA housing values by the end of 2012 (condo, credit)

[pcity]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

How would there be empty units? For newly built condos the condo fees are stabilized while the developer retains control usually up to 75% buy out.

After 75% buy out and 100% I guess there is a small chance of short fall, but early on in a building the fees and demands are minimal and its really just saving money up for depreciation costs 15 years down the line. Once it is 100% the only way that there could be an empty unit would be if the bank foreclosed (far less likely than with other types of housing btw). If this happens the bank is required to pay both the condo fee and the taxes.

When people stop paying their mortgage, they stop paying the condo fee too. Foreclosure takes time, so there is inevitably a time period where no fee is paid. This occurs in TH and SFH communities too, but in condos, there's more money per unit at stake.

Also I agree with everything GMU just said (in fact I might live in the same building as hime). 300 bucks, including security pool gym, utilities, garbage, landscaping, building beautification including window cleanings, yada yada.

He forgot to mention that the home insurance for condos is completely different, instead of paying 80-100 bucks a month its closer to 15-25 bucks a month since the master convenants covers the building itself.

100 a month for TH homeowners insurance? That seems like a lot. 60-80 sure, but 100?

You guys that are paying 300 for all-inclusive condo fees either have tiny condos or are getting a great deal. When I was last scoping out the market, condo fees were 200-400 for no-utilities, 500+ (and up to 800) for anything that included utilities.

Additionally, most condos are located in TOD areas, which means you dont have to drive 99% of the time because you can take metro etc... now some TH you can do this too, so this is a tough call, but typically TH that are truly in TODs have a 30% upcharge in cost. Otherwise you will be driving every where even if you do drive to the metro station. I have calculated this at 4 dollar gas to save about 300 dollars per occupant per month on average.

"Most" condos are not in TOD areas, unless you have a fairly liberal definition of TOD. Most condos I've seen are bus-accessible, but so are many townhouses. The average condo in this area is like those in Landmark (they don't call it "condo canyon" for nothing)- good bus transportation, but still in a car-oriented area. If you want something Metro-walkable, you're going to pay a premium for it (just like a Metro-walkable TH).

Not that I think condos are a bad idea. The low maintenance is a huge plus. You never have to worry about replacing the roof of a condo, for instance. And while condos are not all or even mostly Metro-walkable, there are a lot more condos that are Metro-walkable than townhouses.

[khuntrevor]

I pay 138.33 per month in Phoenix for my hoa fee. It includes water/trash/sewer/pool/exterior/insurance. I supplement that insurance for 194 per year. HOA fees seem very high in NoVa, I've looked at many. Can buy for 4X annual rent here. No way in Hail, I would pay 15X in DC.

[tysonsengineer]

Tysons Corner, Park Crest. Tysons has lots of TOD condos both high rise and garden style, and will be adding a new one with Greystars 25 story building Route 7.

Additionally, the housing crash was a once in a century housing collapse in which many people were foreclosed, the average market in any given highrise of 300 units, might have 1 maybe 2 foreclosures in a year. The chances that this missing 300-400 dollars for a few months that is not lost, but is simply delayed will have an impact for needed immediate construction is highly rare dont you think?

Typical real repairs (which btw dont happen until a condo is 15+ years old anyways) is going to run on the order of hundreds of thousands if not a million dollars. If they are relying on a special assessment to get all of this, then this COA is corrupt and should be chased out of town with pitchforks.

The truth is, almost every convenants has a special reserve percentage written into their documents requiring a certain amount of everyones fees to be provided for just an occasion and not used for operations or improvements.

Also, Arlington has tons of condos that are metro walkable that are 300-400k less than their townhouse counterparts. Over 30years that accounts for nearly 1200 dollars a month less in cost, something that makes looking at the condo much more reasonable. Landmark I agree is a crappy TOD area... I would avoid that area for condos.

[FCNova]

If you're serious about renting a room I'd go the TH route, and try to find one with a bedroom/bathroom in the basement level. Then you can have some separation from the renter. I'd go the TH route even if you weren't renting a room, but that's just me. I live in that area and there are plenty of older townhomes that are very affordable.

[khuntrevor]

Originally Posted by FCNova

If you're serious about renting a room I'd go the TH route, and try to find one with a bedroom/bathroom in the basement level. Then you can have some separation from the renter. I'd go the TH route even if you weren't renting a room, but that's just me. I live in that area and there are plenty of older townhomes that are very affordable.

good idea.

[oneasterisk]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Either way, that article is from 3 years ago and assumes that everyone is buying with an FHA loan. The point is, the real cost of doing business is your monthly operation costs (which is what we were discussing). The cost saving month to month is in favor of condos, and not townhouses. Even just the utilities alone are equal to the 300 dollars mentioned in many cases, if not included with insurance and transportation.

That's what I learned when looking at buying a investment property a few years ago and I haven't seen anything that it's changed dramatically. If somethings changed, feel free to find and post it. I won't waste the time searching since I'm not in the market to buy a condo now or probably ever.

What I'm saying is getting a FHA loan for a condo is harder so buying and then later reselling may include additional hurdles. Which is why I suggested the OP consider a TH over a condo. Yes, not EVERYONE buys with an FHA loan, but many people rely on it to purchase so you may be alienating a large number of potential buyers in the future.

How long have you lived in your condo and have you seen your rates increase? I was just speaking to a coworker a few weeks ago and his condo in Fairfax increased his condo fees this year. I don't know anyone else who owns a condo or I'd ask them to see what their experience has been, but it makes sense that eventually the condo fee will have to increase to keep up with at least inflation and probably other unforeseen repairs. I've never heard anyone exclaiming, 'Gee golly, my condo fee went down!'

[tysonsengineer]

I've lived in my condo for only 2 years, but have had friends who live in FFX who have lived in theirs for 8 years and their condo fees have only gone up at the same rate as overall CPI (2-3% a year) which is to be expected because cost of life always goes up (same reason everyone gets a cost of living increase most years too). They say the biggest key is that their COA has had a good treasurer who is not creating pet projects for the sake of using the money. In fact 2 years ago they actually received money back from their COA at the end of the year as they had a reduction in anticipated facility costs most notably because the typical rise in wages everyone is accustomed to was not used 2 years ago during the worst of the recession, saving their highrise thousands in operation costs. (they only got back 10 bucks or something but still its always nice).

[finecognac]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Additionally, the housing crash was a once in a century housing collapse in which many people were foreclosed

I came here in 1985 and has already witness 2 housing crashes. Anybody remembers the crash of 1988/89 ?

[tysonsengineer]

The savings and loans related crash wasn't like this I dont think was it? I mean this was unparalleled.

[khuntrevor]

people were buying condos with credit cards in Denver, Phoenix, and Tucson in 1989.