how fast over the speed limit is it proper to drive? (Arlington: houses, transportation)

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by FC Merrifield

I thought your previous example about cyclists going too fast involved downgrades, which is what I was referring to. But either way, I don't think it's really debatable that cars can stop more quickly than bikes, and if they could, they would go flying over the handlebars.

Regarding moving to the right, yes, I think most cyclists are good about yielding because, like you said, they want to avoid injury or death. Also, because they're trying to be courteous given the fact that they're holding up traffic. But I've come across some cyclists who refuse to yield regardless of safety issues. I think it's more of a "I have a right to go as slowly as I want and everyone else on the road has to adjust to my speed" attitude. I noticed this more with packs of cyclists on recreational trips (dressed like Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France while going 15 mph) as opposed to commuters.

i mentioned both sharp downgrades (where even a weak cyclist can exceed 25MPH) and moderate downgrades. My impression is that a cyclist with good breaks should be able to stop pretty quickly at 25 MPH on moderate downgrade.

As for folks taking the lane for spite I have not noticed that in my driving. Ever. And I rarely if ever see pelletons on roads in Fairfax county.

as for the clothing, I do know of commuters who wear cycling clothes. I'm in the market for them myself. Bright clothing makes cyclists more visible, and so makes them safer. Aerodynamic clothing makes it easier to go faster - if someone is struggling to go 15MPH, thats an advantage, just as much as it is for someone who can ride faster than 25MPH.

Does a cyclist really have to wear dark clothing, making them less safe, just to show they are not Lance Armstrong wannabes? Why are non-cyclists so obsessed with what cyclists wear anyway, or who they identify with? Are all the folks going 10MPH over the speed limit Nascar wannabes?

"Also, because they're trying to be courteous given the fact that they're holding up traffic"

Bikes ARE traffic.

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by FC Merrifield

But I've come across some cyclists who refuse to yield regardless of safety issues. I think it's more of a "I have a right to go as slowly as I want and everyone else on the road has to adjust to my speed" attitude. I noticed this more with packs of cyclists on recreational trips (dressed like Lance Armstrong in the Tour de France while going 15 mph) as opposed to commuters.

Agree.

[brooklynborndad]

when im driving I LIKE seeing cyclists wearing bright colored cycling jerseys and shorts - they are more visible. What annoys mer are cyclists wearing dark clothing, especiallly if they have inadequate lighting, and are riding that way when its dark.

Maybe you dont have issues with that in Loudoun, but I can assure you its a problem in Annandale. Many of the dark color clothing, no light cyclists, also ride without helmets, and engage in cycling behavior (riding on sidewalks crowded with pedestrians, riding in the road against traffic) that is quite unsafe.

Unfortunately they do nt seem to be well connected to the cycling community, due to issues of class, culture and language, I guess.

[scottfs]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

when im driving I LIKE seeing cyclists wearing bright colored cycling jerseys and shorts - they are more visible. What annoys mer are cyclists wearing dark clothing, especiallly if they have inadequate lighting, and are riding that way when its dark.

Maybe you dont have issues with that in Loudoun, but I can assure you its a problem in Annandale. Many of the dark color clothing, no light cyclists, also ride without helmets, and engage in cycling behavior (riding on sidewalks crowded with pedestrians, riding in the road against traffic) that is quite unsafe.

Unfortunately they do nt seem to be well connected to the cycling community, due to issues of class, culture and language, I guess.

Totally agree, I almost killed a guy who was whizzing down the sidewalk on the left hand side of the road after dark in dark clothes with no reflectors and no helmet. I was trying to turn right out of my neighborhood and I never saw him, luckily my friend was in the passenger seat and warned me he was coming.

I don't really see a lot of "serious" or "avid" looking cyclists doing things like this. I.e. people riding proper road or commuter bikes, with helmets and proper outfit/gear. They tend to follow the rules, I think. The cyclists I see breaking the rules most often tend to be the ones who are riding a bike solely for transportation not because they actually consider themselves a true cyclist.

[FC Merrifield]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

i mentioned both sharp downgrades (where even a weak cyclist can exceed 25MPH) and moderate downgrades. My impression is that a cyclist with good breaks should be able to stop pretty quickly at 25 MPH on moderate downgrade.

As for folks taking the lane for spite I have not noticed that in my driving. Ever. And I rarely if ever see pelletons on roads in Fairfax county.

as for the clothing, I do know of commuters who wear cycling clothes. I'm in the market for them myself. Bright clothing makes cyclists more visible, and so makes them safer. Aerodynamic clothing makes it easier to go faster - if someone is struggling to go 15MPH, thats an advantage, just as much as it is for someone who can ride faster than 25MPH.

Does a cyclist really have to wear dark clothing, making them less safe, just to show they are not Lance Armstrong wannabes? Why are non-cyclists so obsessed with what cyclists wear anyway, or who they identify with? Are all the folks going 10MPH over the speed limit Nascar wannabes?

"Also, because they're trying to be courteous given the fact that they're holding up traffic"

Bikes ARE traffic.

Yes, bikes are traffic. And they can hold up the rest of traffic as well. The two are not mutually exclusive. I don't see what's hard to understand about this. It's not just about bikes; if a car is going 15 in a 35 then I would feel the same way.

I'm glad that you've never encountered a cyclist hogging the lane regardless of safety issues. Some of us have. You're lucky, I guess.

Whoa, it looks like I've stuck a nerve with the little Lance Armstrong comment. I thought it was obvious that I was being light-hearted. I mean, who cares what someone wears. Trust me, I'm not obsessed with what cyclists, or non-cyclists, or unicyclists, wear. I just threw in one parenthetical phrase and you're the one responding with all these defenses. So I take it all back - all of it - everything I ever said about what some cyclists might be wearing. I'll never speak of that which must never be spoken about.

I'm not sure what you mean with your Nascar analogy. I guess the analogy might work if drivers drive cars covered in sponsorship logos while wearing a helmet and fireproof suits and . . . nope, it still wouldn't work because going over 10 mph would actually be the opposite of my earlier comment.

[Pretzelogik]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

When I drive at the speed limit, I find people tending to pass me. Where thats not possible they tail gate. Note I am discussing local arterials and similar roads NOT the left lanes of interstates.


I am curious as we have in the past discussed cyclist scofflaws, and I try on the bike to be a PAL - predictable, alert, and lawful (since, among other reasons, I do not want to provide ammo to those would discourage cycling based on some cyclists breaking the law). Driving its not always clear. It seems from the behavior of my fellow motorists that the speed limit is not a law, but a suggestion - and that socially acceptable behavior is to exceed it, at least when the weather is decent. I'm not sure if I should be exceeding it by 5MPH, 10 MPH, or by more though. I'm thinking that its 10 MPH, but only 5 MPH over if you are texting, and 15MPH is acceptable if you are late.

If you are on the Autobahn... Franz...not a problem.
Driving Lamborghini on Autobahn at 305kph=189mph - YouTube

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by FC Merrifield

Whoa, it looks like I've stuck a nerve with the little Lance Armstrong comment. I thought it was obvious that I was being light-hearted. I mean, who cares what someone wears.

its not the first time Ive heard it, its often not light hearted, and its often associated with opposition to policies to encourage biking.


http://bikinginla.wordpress.com/2009...rong-wannabes/

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by FC Merrifield

I'm glad that you've never encountered a cyclist hogging the lane regardless of safety issues. Some of us have. You're lucky, I guess.

I wonder if I see it differently because as someone who sometimes cycles on the road in Fairfax County, I am more aware of the issues with riding on the right? Without seeing the exact behavior of the "lane hogs" its hard to know.

Or maybe its the roads I drive. Where do you see this typically? And where in FFX county do you see pelletons on the road?

I really cannot recall seeing more than 3 cyclists on the road together in FFX ever (and when I see three I think they have always been riding single file)

The only time I saw a pelleton on the road was in eastern loudoun, and it was pretty clear to me they were headed back from the W&OD. And it was on one of those wide eastern Loudoun roads with plenty of room for motorists to go to the other lane.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by scottfs

Totally agree, I almost killed a guy who was whizzing down the sidewalk on the left hand side of the road after dark in dark clothes with no reflectors and no helmet. I was trying to turn right out of my neighborhood and I never saw him, luckily my friend was in the passenger seat and warned me he was coming.

I don't really see a lot of "serious" or "avid" looking cyclists doing things like this. I.e. people riding proper road or commuter bikes, with helmets and proper outfit/gear. They tend to follow the rules, I think. The cyclists I see breaking the rules most often tend to be the ones who are riding a bike solely for transportation not because they actually consider themselves a true cyclist.

Just to clarify there are 'serious' cyclists who ride for transportation.

Would it be terribly unPC to say that the riders we are discussing are typically working class hispanic immigrants? It would be very good if there could be more outreach to that community on safe cycling. Also free or discounted distribution of lights and helmets.

[OrangeFish]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

when im driving I LIKE seeing cyclists wearing bright colored cycling jerseys and shorts - they are more visible. What annoys mer are cyclists wearing dark clothing, especiallly if they have inadequate lighting, and are riding that way when its dark.

I agree.

Yesterday I was driving on Hummer Road in Annandale (southbound towards 236) and a cyclist was in the middle of the road (not to the right side where the parking/curb lane is well marked) and the cyclist had on dark pants/shirt and no helmet. I was following at least three (maybe four?) vehicles, where the first in line came upon the cyclist (he's in middle of the road where vehicles are traveling 30+ MPH after the intersection with Annandale/Gallows Rds). The first vehicle slammed on the brakes, the second vehicle swerved over the double yellow line to avoid hitting the first, etc., and I ended up slowing way down and pulling into the curb lane. Thankfully there were no other vehicles anywhere, and thankfully no one was hurt, but jeez -- why would someone do that at all, never mind at dusk?