Bill to Study Bringing Metro to Woodbridge & Centreville (Richmond: buyers, quality of life)
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...a good number of people commute from one jurisdiction to another so in a sense "everyone" benefits from any improvements made on the Metro.
But it only benefits those for whom driving to that location is onerous. When I worked at Belvoir, I drove every day, and it took me about 40 minutes. If they put a Metro there, it will mainly benefit those who live south of the base, because those who live north already have any easy commute by car.
But it only benefits those for whom driving to that location is onerous. When I worked at Belvoir, I drove every day, and it took me about 40 minutes. If they put a Metro there, it will mainly benefit those who live south of the base, because those who live north already have any easy commute by car.
Point taken. I should clarlify my "everyone" statement then to say "everyone who does or would ride Metro from one jurisdiction to another".
But it only benefits those for whom driving to that location is onerous. When I worked at Belvoir, I drove every day, and it took me about 40 minutes. If they put a Metro there, it will mainly benefit those who live south of the base, because those who live north already have any easy commute by car.
True to some point. Try to come visit Tysons from Arlington and beat what the Silver line will do when it opens. 12 minutes from Ballston to McLean station vs 25 minutes otherwise by car. Point being, traffic patterns can change, and sometimes historic magnets are overtaken... though I dont see that happening with Belvoir so your point is taken.
I still dont understand why people wont support instead building up the VRE with a station and more trains.
Instead of waiting 20 years, you'll only have to wait 3-5. It wont be run by the S-show that is WMATA. Yes it will be more expensive for tickets (but capital construction will be a lot easier on tax payers), but not by all that much considering any Woodbridge or Haymarket ride to any job center will likely be any cheaper than 7 bucks anyways. And lastly its a proven route with growing users, it would be natural to expand it.
VRE, WMATA, what difference does it make if it means you get to where you wanna go and it provides traffic relief for congested corridors.
True to some point. Try to come visit Tysons from Arlington and beat what the Silver line will do when it opens. 12 minutes from Ballston to McLean station vs 25 minutes otherwise by car. Point being, traffic patterns can change, and sometimes historic magnets are overtaken... though I dont see that happening with Belvoir so your point is taken.
I still dont understand why people wont support instead building up the VRE with a station and more trains.
Instead of waiting 20 years, you'll only have to wait 3-5. It wont be run by the S-show that is WMATA. Yes it will be more expensive for tickets (but capital construction will be a lot easier on tax payers), but not by all that much considering any Woodbridge or Haymarket ride to any job center will likely be any cheaper than 7 bucks anyways. And lastly its a proven route with growing users, it would be natural to expand it.
VRE, WMATA, what difference does it make if it means you get to where you wanna go and it provides traffic relief for congested corridors.
I think one of the complaints against VRE is that it doesn't operate on weekends and after work hours such as Metro. There are a good number of people in the far flung suburbs who would love to hop on a rail system on the weekend and head into DC or closer in VA suburbs for shopping/dining/night life. So far, the VRE is a Mon-Fri commuter system. I think the allure of Metro is that it's almost a 24/7 operation and people in the suburbs want that rather than have to drive into town. But, I will say, that's probably a very low percentage of suburbanites who want to do this so that's probably why it won't be done.
It's been a LONG time for me, but I do remember navigating the Tokyo subway system and what I really liked about it is the fact that it has an outer ring so you don't have to go into the heart of the city to get back out to another station. That was pretty nice.
True to some point. Try to come visit Tysons from Arlington and beat what the Silver line will do when it opens. 12 minutes from Ballston to McLean station vs 25 minutes otherwise by car.
Metro to Tysons I think makes a lot more sense than to Centreville or Woodbridge--because it's closer and is already a major employment center. (I concede your estimate on the weekday drive time. I can drive to J Gilbert's in 15 minutes, but that's on the fringe of Tysons, and that's usually at night or on a weekend.)
I mean, if we extend Metro to every place where a lot of people live, then why not run it all the way to Loudoun County? Hell, why not to West Virginia? I'm sure many folks in those places would see that as a boon for them, but what's in it for the rest of us?
Now the VRE is a different story; it's already in place. They might as well run it more often, in more directions, and make the most of it.
I think one of the complaints against VRE is that it doesn't operate on weekends and after work hours such as Metro. There are a good number of people in the far flung suburbs who would love to hop on a rail system on the weekend and head into DC or closer in VA suburbs for shopping/dining/night life. So far, the VRE is a Mon-Fri commuter system. I think the allure of Metro is that it's almost a 24/7 operation and people in the suburbs want that rather than have to drive into town. But, I will say, that's probably a very low percentage of suburbanites who want to do this so that's probably why it won't be done.
It's been a LONG time for me, but I do remember navigating the Tokyo subway system and what I really liked about it is the fact that it has an outer ring so you don't have to go into the heart of the city to get back out to another station. That was pretty nice.
I think in spite of the demand, that extending the VRE services makes a lot of sense. I would imagine the demand is going to pick up as the area gets more populated. How many times have we seen backups on weekends that are considered non-travel weekend. Going around town during the weekend is sometimes becoming equivalent to rush hour in some instances. If there was a way to avoid this, then I think many people would oblige. It will be interesting to see how much the traffic pattern changes in the near future.
Perhaps I'm not seeing things clearly, but wouldn't expanding a commuter rail line out to a place like Haymarket, as was suggested, just result in urban sprawl shifting even further westward as people could now colonize and develop areas further west and drive to a park/ride lot at a proposed new train station in Haymarket to commute to points east? What then? Do we then extend that rail line even further west to a new sprawlsville so people can then build yet another sprawlsville further west of that one? When will Northern Virginia actually work on solving problems in its CORE first before subsidizing transit for those who choose to live in places like Haymarket for no apparent reason other than "more square footage"? NoVA needs to intensify its density closer to the urban core instead of just spreading people out thinner and thinner progressively further and further out like butter. One of the many reasons I left Reston was due to the sheer idiocy of people who were railing against an increase in density. Would you rather people continue to flood into Northern Virginia and move further and further out into the countryside, ruining open space and clogging the roads of each and every community closer in?
I have to disagree with that point. Rail (and roads for that matter) don't automatically equal sprawl. That comes from land use and zoning. It can be a catalyst for sprawl but if we have strong zoning and better planning, we can curtail sprawl. I recently visited Germany and they have rail all over the place, but they have strong land use policies and why you don't see highrises and endless development at every single train station. Same thing with NJ transit...there maybe some development around the train station, but it isn't endless sprawl.
I think one of the complaints against VRE is that it doesn't operate on weekends and after work hours such as Metro. There are a good number of people in the far flung suburbs who would love to hop on a rail system on the weekend and head into DC or closer in VA suburbs for shopping/dining/night life. So far, the VRE is a Mon-Fri commuter system. I think the allure of Metro is that it's almost a 24/7 operation and people in the suburbs want that rather than have to drive into town. But, I will say, that's probably a very low percentage of suburbanites who want to do this so that's probably why it won't be done.
It's been a LONG time for me, but I do remember navigating the Tokyo subway system and what I really liked about it is the fact that it has an outer ring so you don't have to go into the heart of the city to get back out to another station. That was pretty nice.
If they expanded rail capacity and service I think more people would ride. I know I would. I-66 and I-95 corridors are parking lots almost all the time now including on the weekends. If VRE was expanded to lets say one train an hour during the weekends, I'm sure people would ride it.
This area should look at NYC metro area as an example. I know they have way more people than the DC area, but I think they are more efficient when it comes to moving people. The NYC subway moves people within the city or core, while LIRR, Metro North, and NJ Transit commuter trains move people from the suburbs to the city.
In my opinion it makes no sense to build Metro that far out without having the density to support it, especially when rail infrastructure is already there. The only reason I think the Silver Line made sense is because there was no rail service along that corridor and it was serving one of the largest central business districts in the area along with a major international airport.
This area should look at NYC metro area as an example. I know they have way more people than the DC area, but I think they are more efficient when it comes to moving people. The NYC subway moves people within the city or core, while LIRR, Metro North, and NJ Transit commuter trains move people from the suburbs to the city.
This is the exact model that should be encouraged. NYC has been doing it that way for 100 years and are light years ahead of the rest of the country.
Perhaps I'm not seeing things clearly, but wouldn't expanding a commuter rail line out to a place like Haymarket, as was suggested, just result in urban sprawl shifting even further westward as people could now colonize and develop areas further west and drive to a park/ride lot at a proposed new train station in Haymarket to commute to points east? What then? Do we then extend that rail line even further west to a new sprawlsville so people can then build yet another sprawlsville further west of that one? When will Northern Virginia actually work on solving problems in its CORE first before subsidizing transit for those who choose to live in places like Haymarket for no apparent reason other than "more square footage"? NoVA needs to intensify its density closer to the urban core instead of just spreading people out thinner and thinner progressively further and further out like butter. One of the many reasons I left Reston was due to the sheer idiocy of people who were railing against an increase in density. Would you rather people continue to flood into Northern Virginia and move further and further out into the countryside, ruining open space and clogging the roads of each and every community closer in?
Good post. I too may be missing something, but 10-years ago, when homebuyers made a decision to move even further out to Gainesville for example, for cheaper land and the fleeting "quality of life", they surely knew that the Vienna station was the end of the line.
Now, those residents want the end of the line to be near them. What happens when the train leaves this new Centreville station filled to capacity. What then do the riders waiting at Vienna do when that same eight-car train arrives at their station? No room for additional riders at only the second of eight or nine stops. What about those waiting at the Dunn Loring station? Any room on that eight-car train for those riders?
It just seems that the capacity is finite, and there's only so many seats that can be made available during a typical 2-hour rush peak.
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