UVA Student sues state for $40 Million after illegal arrest by ABC

[PK12]

This thread should be moved to the general VA forum

[NotYetWorth]

Originally Posted by PK12

This thread should be moved to the general VA forum

If there were any discussions in that forum, it might be worth it. As is, this is the most active Virginia forum and Charlottesville is a mere 46 miles from the "nova border" (much to their chagrin) , which puts it closer than any of the other subforums.

[homebeyer2013]

There is no valid reason to not allow grocery stores to sell it. Age requirement is the same for beer/wine. ABC is another job killer and a big taste of Soviet style shopping. I still like to read the DC liquor store ads in the VA editions of the Post. Dixie Liquor lives on....in Georgetown.

[Bigfoot424]

Originally Posted by snowdenscold

Agreed that I don't mind the actual ABC stores at all. I've always had pleasant experiences inside.

Now it's the whole enforcement arm that seems like a huge waste and needs to be overhauled / eliminated.

Why? Because of this one incident or do you know of others personally? I don't recall everything that happened in this one incident and if they screwed up then so be it. But in my LE career I worked many times with ABC agents and they were a dedicated and professional group of men and women. Especially back in the early to mid 80's they would step in with bars that were causing us some serious headaches. They would work undercover in them and compile a case against bars that were serving underage people, drunks who were repeatedly served more drinks only to go out and drive, and so on. They would pull a liquor license of a bar that had a constant drug/fight problem and so on.

[homebeyer2013]

They busted a waitress at Malek's back in 1998. She was mid 50s, supplementing her still successful small business. She admitted to doing it, and a customer lawyer took her case and got her 100 hours of community service at the library instead of a 2500 fine. What everyone resented was the utmost sneaky nature the ABC used to bust her. They used a professional make-up artist to make the buyer look 35. They came in during our usual late night rush, as most know there are few options after midnight. We were especially busy that night, and the beer ordered was an ad on, after the group had sat there eating for a while and made sure she was doing 7 things at once. She took full responsibility, but the whole thing stunk to high Hell. Oh, and the one time we needed the police because a customer was beating his girlfriend in the parking lot and threatening employees, who were trying to intervene; it took 17 minutes for them to arrive...and this was at about 10pm on a weeknight.

[slim04]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

[/b]


Why? Because of this one incident or do you know of others personally? I don't recall everything that happened in this one incident and if they screwed up then so be it. But in my LE career I worked many times with ABC agents and they were a dedicated and professional group of men and women. Especially back in the early to mid 80's they would step in with bars that were causing us some serious headaches. They would work undercover in them and compile a case against bars that were serving underage people, drunks who were repeatedly served more drinks only to go out and drive, and so on. They would pull a liquor license of a bar that had a constant drug/fight problem and so on.

Um, because the vast majority of other states have local law enforcement handle this work or civilian inspectors for liquor license boards.

When I lived in a campus town, the local police would do one or two sweeps at the beginning of each semester at campus bars and restaurants. Hardly seems an entire state-wide law enforcement agency was necessary for this type of work.

If you were going to reallocate resources, would it be more helpful to boost local law enforcement to combat a wider variety of issues beyond teens getting access to alcohol at bars and ABC stores. Back where I come from, the time honored way for teens to get alcohol was to ask the older brother of a friend. Not sure how a ABC force is going to combat that.

To combat DUI's, things like checkpoints, training for servers and owners, and liability for the businesses if someone is harmed is WAY more effective. I was a bartender once, and when my bosses insurance went up 30% due to some lawsuits on other bars, you better believe that we started being very aggressive in cutting people off, pro-active in being arranging taxi's, and started offering free sodas to designated drivers.

When you hear about things like the real bad problems with meth in the rural parts of the state, you kind of wonder why we are so concerned about moonshiners, teens with fake IDs, etc.

That's just my opinion.

[homebeyer2013]

Originally Posted by slim04

Um, because the vast majority of other states have local law enforcement handle this work or civilian inspectors for liquor license boards.

When I lived in a campus town, the local police would do one or two sweeps at the beginning of each semester at campus bars and restaurants. Hardly seems an entire state-wide law enforcement agency was necessary for this type of work.

If you were going to reallocate resources, would it be more helpful to boost local law enforcement to combat a wider variety of issues beyond teens getting access to alcohol at bars and ABC stores. Back where I come from, the time honored way for teens to get alcohol was to ask the older brother of a friend. Not sure how a ABC force is going to combat that.

To combat DUI's, things like checkpoints, training for servers and owners, and liability for the businesses if someone is harmed is WAY more effective. I was a bartender once, and when my bosses insurance went up 30% due to some lawsuits on other bars, you better believe that we started being very aggressive in cutting people off, pro-active in being arranging taxi's, and started offering free sodas to designated drivers.

When you hear about things like the real bad problems with meth in the rural parts of the state, you kind of wonder why we are so concerned about moonshiners, teens with fake IDs, etc.

That's just my opinion.

well stated, Slim. And for those opposed to Liquor stores, all I can say is what about all those Payday Loan places/check cashing whatever they call them nowadays....they all cater to the illegals, and you can add many 7-11s to the list, which serve as illegal immigrant labor hubs. Some of the things these community associations get involved in are idiotic. I remember them giving CVS a huge headache about selling single beers....CVS agreed to not sell singles, so everytime I needed a beer; I had to buy an 18 pack. And of course unemployment was 11%, and it was going to add 30 jobs to the neighborhood. At the meeting I attended, I stated, maybe if the Middle-eastern smoke shop two doors down wasn't selling 1 dollar glass pipes, there wouldn't be so many prowling around with a beer. Reminds me of the way those retards are treating Wal-mart in DC. What could possibly be more suited for DC than a place that caters to welfare recipients?

[slim04]

Here is an another article from the Washington Post that has a lot of questions about the ABC, it's methods and it's necessity. UVA student assaulted by state alcohol control officers files lawsuit