Dear PWC, stop blaming the Silver Line (Richmond, Arlington: employment, construction)

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

I believe expanding the roads can actually ease congestion--provided more housing (which brings more cars) is not built farther out, to add to the load the road expansion was supposed to relieve.

That's the problem, Carlingtonian. Historically, increasing capacity to ease commutes means more people will move further out to new housing subdivisions, thinking the commute from further out for cheaper housing won't be so bad anymore, which will lead to that extra lane capacity being canceled out within 5 years. Los Angeles, Atlanta, and NoVA alike can all have 20-lane MEGA freeways and still endure bumper-to-bumper congestion due to haphazard development patterns that aren't conducive to a great infrastructure network.

[stpickrell]

1) It's not easy for most people to just up and move to an area like PGH, which IIRC is having its own "rent is too damn high" crisis. Not everyone can just glide on into a new job or just show up and hope to find a job. SCR was single, no kids, and wasn't exactly tearing it up in Northern Virginia. A move made perfect sense for him and it does seem it's working out well for him.
2) Damn those exurbanites for wanting SFHs for under 500k in good school districts/zones. They need to know better and live in 2-bedroom condos or tiny townhouses and just accept their lot in life is to suffer.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by stpickrell

1) It's not easy for most people to just up and move to an area like PGH, which IIRC is having its own "rent is too damn high" crisis. Not everyone can just glide on into a new job or just show up and hope to find a job. SCR was single, no kids, and wasn't exactly tearing it up in Northern Virginia. A move made perfect sense for him and it does seem it's working out well for him.
2) Damn those exurbanites for wanting SFHs for under 500k in good school districts/zones. They need to know better and live in 2-bedroom condos or tiny townhouses and just accept their lot in life is to suffer.

Your definition of suffering is confusing. Is it the tiny place that is suffering or the 90 minute commute? You can't have your cake and eat it too. No one is damning you, but the thing about life is, it has tough choices and there are negatives and positives to every choice. Yes you have your nice house, but you knew you would have a long commute. So I'm not sure I really understand this whole outrage and scapegoating (that is more common than just this official) on how inner suburbs and cities need to stop "playing politics" and build highways.

Building highways will destroy their neighborhoods (maybe not in the case of 28 since most of the problem on 28 is in PWC) but for instance the widen 66 in Arlington crowd. Why should Arlington? Honestly, put yourselves in Arlington residents shoes. If your politicians representing you supported a highway widening that literally helps people not be in Arlington and harms your health and access to places wouldn't you be pissed off?

You are free to have a house. Its America. You can live in WVa if you want and drive into the city. It is not the states, inner residents, or anyone elses responsibility to make that easier for you. Sorry. You chose house instead of commute. I choose commute instead of house. Both are correct decisions for the priorities we have. If the commute is too awful, there is always the option of finding work closer to where you are, or if its really truly bad, maybe downsizing and suffering with the rest of us sufferers in the inner burbs living in our tiny little boxes. And while we are at it, you should probably pay attention to what people who work in the transportation field are telling you about how to better use your transportation funds to improve the commutes, because 1) widening lanes doesnt have as much benefit as many people think 2) if you are relying on those lanes to remain wide when they enter other jurisdictions, hoping they will do it too at cost and against the preferences of their own residents, it won't work becuase you will just funnel down to a bottle neck slightly further down the road.

[JD984]

I think some of these "discussions" have a self-defeating quality, insofar as planning and transportation issues would benefit from regional approaches, but it's harder to pull that off when the dialogue seems to force people into tribes (the put-upon residents of the outer suburb who is encouraged to think they aren't getting their fair share of transportation resources, the know-it-all residents of closer-in areas who delight in telling others how much more noble their own lives are in supposedly "walkable" areas and how everyone else should follow their lead, etc).

It just seems like one more public realm where everything gets polarized and people lack empathy for one another's circumstances. Perhaps a more honest assessment would at least acknowledge that few of us had a crystal ball that allowed us to predict with confidence how things would look 10 years in the future, and that now we need to figure out how to improve the lives of people who are already here, rather than berate them for not anticipating the consequences of their choices with the benefit of 20-20 hindsight. And I really doubt that stressed commuters in PW really go to bed every night praying that someone else's home in Arlington will get torn down for a wider highway.

[Hudlander]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Manassas town hall meeting addresses Route 28 congestion - The Washington Post

No the Silver Line did not take billions of dollars from the state. If anything Route 28 (which cost the state 500 million) and Gainsville interchange (600 million) is the robber of the funds. Fix your land use, stop thinking road widenings will fix anything, then maybe you wouldn't deal with a 2 hour commute.

1) I think the person was not blaming the Silver Line for the increased congestion, but rather, saying PWC has not gotten enough VDOT funds compared to FFX and Loudoun.

2) This was a Manassas legislature, which has seen even less help from VDOT.

3) Manassas should lay the blame/focus on:
-Getting Metro or VRE upgraded to provide more service to this area
-Getting land use and transportation in line. Route 28 WAS DESIGNED FOR LOCAL traffic in PWC. It was NOT DESIGNED for THRU traffic.
-The Goodwin Extenstion or Tri-County PKWY should have been built long, long ago.

It amazes me, just amazes me, how stupid or corrupt these localities are.
HOW can you 3x the population of an area (like Gainesville, Haymarket, Bristow, Manassas) AND NOT upgrade the roadway which was designed for when PWC was rurual?

How the heck can you let massive, widespread developers to come in and build WITHOUT first or concurrently making a needed THRU route? I don't understand how NOVA has planners and yet they have such poor, poor planning.

[dkf747]

Fixing 66 inside the Beltway is not going to destroy Arlington. We get nowhere with hyperbole like that.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by dkf747

Fixing 66 inside the Beltway is not going to destroy Arlington. We get nowhere with hyperbole like that.

I said neighborhoods, and yes there are plenty of neighborhoods that would be badly disrupted with no benefit but more congestion, more exhaust, and more division from other neighborhoods. If I lived there, I'd be pissed to see any concession on that matter without serious reforms or mitigation in terms of payment towards something Arlington wants. I dont consider it hyperbole to point out the truth about how highways through urban settings destroy the very fabric of those neighborhoods. Anyone who doesn't believe it should be forced to live in Tysons for 2 years and see how insanely frustrating it is that the road system was made for commuters, despite distances apart for certain things being minimal.

In terms of regionalism. Sorry I don't buy that. Nothing PWC, Stafford, or Loudoun did in the past 2 decades was out of a sense of regionalism. They broke it, they buy it. Fairfax County and Arlington County tax payers shouldn't have to spend precious funds that are not available for themselves, to spend on a county who keeps building stuff incorrectly. That being said, PWC has a very easy solution; spend the much greater capital funds they have received compared to Fairfax (some of you are perpetuating a myth that Fairfax receives more) on less useless things.

Or, go ahead and spend the 500 million to widen 28. I don't care, I don't have to drive it. Just don't be shocked if it does nothing. Instead you could of course create multiple crossings into Fairfax County and Centreville, something that Fairfax would likely be more favorable towards in partnership and shared funds. Same number of lanes, just not funnelled. But of course somehow this would "just move the choke point", smh so many civil engineers on this forum I had no idea about.

[dkf747]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

I said neighborhoods, and yes there are plenty of neighborhoods that would be badly disrupted with no benefit but more congestion, more exhaust, and more division from other neighborhoods. If I lived there, I'd be pissed to see any concession on that matter without serious reforms or mitigation in terms of payment towards something Arlington wants. I dont consider it hyperbole to point out the truth about how highways through urban settings destroy the very fabric of those neighborhoods. Anyone who doesn't believe it should be forced to live in Tysons for 2 years and see how insanely frustrating it is that the road system was made for commuters, despite distances apart for certain things being minimal.

In terms of regionalism. Sorry I don't buy that. Nothing PWC, Stafford, or Loudoun did in the past 2 decades was out of a sense of regionalism. They broke it, they buy it. Fairfax County and Arlington County tax payers shouldn't have to spend precious funds that are not available for themselves, to spend on a county who keeps building stuff incorrectly. That being said, PWC has a very easy solution; spend the much greater capital funds they have received compared to Fairfax (some of you are perpetuating a myth that Fairfax receives more) on less useless things.

Or, go ahead and spend the 500 million to widen 28. I don't care, I don't have to drive it. Just don't be shocked if it does nothing. Instead you could of course create multiple crossings into Fairfax County and Centreville, something that Fairfax would likely be more favorable towards in partnership and shared funds. Same number of lanes, just not funnelled. But of course somehow this would "just move the choke point", smh so many civil engineers on this forum I had no idea about.

Well, I think it's hyperbole to say fixing choke points on 66 will destroy neighborhoods. The highway is there already. Fixing a spot or two won't do anything to hurt the neighborhoods. I am not arguing for widening it. I just want to fix a few areas where there is an obvious problem.

I agree with your view about 28. I have no argument with you there.

[Middlin]

[QUOTE Instead you could of course create multiple crossings into Fairfax County and Centreville, something that Fairfax would likely be more favorable towards in partnership and shared funds. Same number of lanes, just not funnelled. But of course somehow this would "just move the choke point", smh so many civil engineers on this forum I had no idea about.[/quote]

If you could elaborate on this, please do so instead of just being smug

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by dkf747

Well, I think it's hyperbole to say fixing choke points on 66 will destroy neighborhoods. The highway is there already. Fixing a spot or two won't do anything to hurt the neighborhoods. I am not arguing for widening it. I just want to fix a few areas where there is an obvious problem.

I agree with your view about 28. I have no argument with you there.

I'm all for spot improvements. I'm also all for the electronic messaging systems and other smart road improvements. I've always said the design between the DTR off ramp and the Washington st exit is absolutely a mess. The problem is, those who are arguing about I-66 aren't talking about small spot improvements typically, they want 6 lanes (or 8 lanes if you really ask them) all the way to DC... so that it can dump onto a 4 lane bridge onto Constitution with lights btw.