If a cop cites me for reckless driving, does he have probable cause to search my car? (home, high school)

[Caltovegas]

Best answer is you want to speak with an Attorney before you give consent.

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I suppose it boils down to what constitutes "reckless driving". My understanding is that here in Potland you have to be violating 3 rules of the road (like speeding, failure to use turn signal and tailgating...) before it's considered "reckless". A patrolman has a right to determine why the driver is being "reckless" and that can give rise to probable cause. It seems to me to be a case by case thing.

[Joe33]

Reckless driving in Virginia is just about anything the police want to call reckless.

Some years ago a friend of mine got a reckless driving ticket while visiting his mother when he crossed over the parking lot lines in a super market parking lot. It was a misdemeanor but because it was a state law rather than backed by federal law it means nothing outside of Virginia.

[Unsettomati]

Originally Posted by Joe33

Reckless driving in Virginia is just about anything the police want to call reckless.

Some years ago a friend of mine got a reckless driving ticket while visiting his mother when he crossed over the parking lot lines in a super market parking lot. It was a misdemeanor but because it was a state law rather than backed by federal law it means nothing outside of Virginia.

That's just it.

And the same goes for 'probable cause' - a creative cop who has been around the LEO block a few times and who is bound and determined to search your vehicle is going to find a way that appears sufficiently constitutional to satisfy to letter of the law, regardless if his excuse is really reasonable or justifiable - or constitutional.

[Joe33]

Originally Posted by Unsettomati

That's just it.

And the same goes for 'probable cause' - a creative cop who has been around the LEO block a few times and who is bound and determined to search your vehicle is going to find a way that appears sufficiently constitutional to satisfy to letter of the law, regardless if his excuse is really reasonable or justifiable - or constitutional.

Thats exactly why The supreme court ruled as they did in Rodriguez that the police MUST have tangible evidence BEFORE they search a vehicle for another crime.

[Yakscsd]

An officer can't do a "pat down" search simply on a hunch of his safety. He must have reasonable evidence or probable cause to think you are armed. It's clearly written in the Terry V Ohio 1968 ish decision.

As for your car, he can't search it just because you were charged with a misdemeanor traffic infraction. Now if you said something, or he saw/smelled, something from the outside, then he has probably cause. He may also be able to search if for example he saw you visiting a known drug house prior to the ticket. This might give him reasonable suspicion. Probable cause and reasonable suspicion are the two bars for determining the legality of any search. Also, remember that per the Terry V Ohio decision, the other component is that the officer must be able to articulate the reasonable suspicion or probable cause. if you ask why and he can't tell you, then it isn't legal. Anything found during an illegal search may be deemed inadmissible. Of course the problem is that LEO's will lie about their PC.

The other part to consider is that if you decline his request to search your car, something you should always do, he can impound your car while he obtains a search warrant. Not the end of the world if you're innocent, but certainly inconvenient.

[boyd888]

A reckless driving ticket is not a free pass for an officer to search your car...there still must be probable cause. Now if you are being actually arrested and the car is being impounded (like a DUI), then they do search it to inventory the contents.

If a cop wants to search your car, all you can do is say "I do not consent to any searches." That's it (or remain silent). There are good cops out there that will respect your decision and let you on your way (assuming they don't have probable cause).

Now some cops see refusal as a challenge. "Why you do you refuse? Are you hiding something? If you have nothing to hide it shouldn't be a problem if I take a quick look, right?" etc etc. They can bring in a drug dog and have it "alert," threaten to impound the car, or whatever other dirty tactics they want to use. I do understand the 'if you have nothing to hide let them search so you can be on your way' camp, but that thought process is exactly why the cops keep this behavior up.

Again the only thing you really can do is remain silent and fight it in court (if they do find something illegal).

[johnsonkk]

Originally Posted by Bill790

From Wikipedia:


That speaks to my original question...if I'm cited for "Reckless Driving," which in Virginia is a misdemeanor, is it reasonable to suspect that I'm involved in "criminal activity"? Enough so the cop can do a "Terry search," or search my car? Is going, say, 21 mph over the speed limit enough to warrant suspicion that I'm "armed and dangerous"? if so, there would be a LOT of people on the DC Beltway getting patted down.

--

Throughout the thread. ... did this occur or is this a hypothetical? From this thread, you've been charged with reckless driving but nobody searched your car. Legal questions often work when there is a framework of facts vs. Continual what-ifs.

[Bigfoot424]

Originally Posted by Joe33

Reckless driving in Virginia is just about anything the police want to call reckless.

Some years ago a friend of mine got a reckless driving ticket while visiting his mother when he crossed over the parking lot lines in a super market parking lot. It was a misdemeanor but because it was a state law rather than backed by federal law it means nothing outside of Virginia.

I'd love to see proof of this. I recall when my kids were in high school they came home asking if they could be cited for crossing the lines in a parking lot. I had to laugh at them for believing everything they hear. I've heard it a few more times since. It's bogus and you don't get a ticket for that. If you're friend got a ticket then there is more to the story.

[Bigfoot424]

Originally Posted by Yakscsd

An officer can't do a "pat down" search simply on a hunch of his safety. He must have reasonable evidence or probable cause to think you are armed. It's clearly written in the Terry V Ohio 1968 ish decision.

As for your car, he can't search it just because you were charged with a misdemeanor traffic infraction. Now if you said something, or he saw/smelled, something from the outside, then he has probably cause. He may also be able to search if for example he saw you visiting a known drug house prior to the ticket. This might give him reasonable suspicion. Probable cause and reasonable suspicion are the two bars for determining the legality of any search. Also, remember that per the Terry V Ohio decision, the other component is that the officer must be able to articulate the reasonable suspicion or probable cause. if you ask why and he can't tell you, then it isn't legal. Anything found during an illegal search may be deemed inadmissible. Of course the problem is that LEO's will lie about their PC.

The other part to consider is that if you decline his request to search your car, something you should always do, he can impound your car while he obtains a search warrant. Not the end of the world if you're innocent, but certainly inconvenient.

Ok, where is this as I don't believe this is true? But you never know in other parts of the country. So please educate me.