Failure to Obey HWY Sign Ticket (30MPH Zone) (Arlington: how much, home) - Northern Virginia - Virginia (VA) - City-Data Forum

42camels · 08-02-2016, 08:38 AM

I have a bit of a special case, if you have experienced the same situation please advise.

Coming home from the DMV in Arlington, I was driving in a 30 mph zone and probably over the speed limit (I'll admit). A cop was joining the road so I decided to slow down to his speed and not pass him. At this point, I'm doing 30mph, as is the cop, and am in line with him. He slows down, gets behind me and pulls me over.

The first question when he comes over to my window is to ask me if I was speeding...? Either way, I lose. I ask if he has me on radar for speeding (which I know he doesn't). At this point, he loses his temper and asks why I'm antagonizing him, proceeds to ask for my license and registration. When he comes back, he does NOT give me a speeding ticket but a "Failure to obey highway sign" ticket, with (30 MPH Zone) written underneath it.

I'm wondering if it's worth fighting in court. The cop admitted to me to having to slow down to 25mph to pull me over (which means I was doing the speed limit), did not actually give me a speeding ticket (because he has no proof) but a failure to obey highway sign, and started off the conversation asking me if I was speeding (pointing to the fact that he doesn't know or have evidence).

Is my logic flawed here? I don't see why I shouldn't go to court and plead not guilty. I'm a bit frustrated, as I once was pulled over for passing a cop so I decided to never make the same mistake twice.

Ffxdata · 08-02-2016, 08:50 AM

You were speeding and are mad that you were caught speeding?

boyd888 · 08-02-2016, 10:22 AM

So go to court and fight it...it's your right to. You seem pretty certain the officer was wrong so I don't see why you need motivation from this forum it's not like any of us were there.

Go get'em tiger!

The Dissenter · 08-02-2016, 10:46 AM

It is a 3 point offense so contesting it is not a bad idea. I don't think you did yourself any favors by getting the cop PO'd. I think if you admitted you were very close to 30 instead of posing a questionable question, you probably go home with a warning.

dkf747 · 08-02-2016, 12:43 PM

Why did the cop get upset over a simple question like that?

tgbwc · 08-02-2016, 01:17 PM

I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused. At what point did the officer observe you speeding? From what I'm reading you were at the speed limit when he was merging onto the road is that correct?

From what you described it seems like it would be worth challenging. You failed to obey the highway sign posting 30 mph how specifically? By driving too slow? Too fast? 32 mph? 34 mph?

Bigfoot424 · 08-02-2016, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgbwc

I'm sorry, but I'm a little confused. At what point did the officer observe you speeding? From what I'm reading you were at the speed limit when he was merging onto the road is that correct?

From what you described it seems like it would be worth challenging. You failed to obey the highway sign posting 30 mph how specifically? By driving too slow? Too fast? 32 mph? 34 mph?

Anyone believe we're getting the entire story? I don't. Officers are trained to judge speed and by the OP's own admission was likely speeding. If the officer did not get the OP on radar or pace then his expert testimony alone should be enough in court. This kind of testimony can actually be stronger than using a machine. (Radar/Lidar) If he cannot prove the exact speed then Fail to Obey a Highway Sign can certainly be easy to prove. Not that the OP can't win in court with a shred of doubt in the judges mind so he/she has to decide if it's worth it.

42camels · 08-02-2016, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

Anyone believe we're getting the entire story? I don't. Officers are trained to judge speed and by the OP's own admission was likely speeding. If the officer did not get the OP on radar or pace then his expert testimony alone should be enough in court. This kind of testimony can actually be stronger than using a machine. (Radar/Lidar) If he cannot prove the exact speed then Fail to Obey a Highway Sign can certainly be easy to prove. Not that the OP can't win in court with a shred of doubt in the judges mind so he/she has to decide if it's worth it.

So yes, I was speeding over the limit. By how much? I have no clue. By the time the officer merged to the road from the side street, I had slowed down to his speed limit.

What I don't understand is how an officer's testimony is enough to have this ticket stick? So in other words, is the officer 100% correct 100% of the time when making a visual judgement call (no lidar/radar) on who is speeding/not speeding?

I have to prove that there is enough doubt, and I'm here asking if there is enough doubt to get this ticket dismissed.

Finally, this is exactly how it happened.

Labonte18 · 08-02-2016, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 42camels

So yes, I was speeding over the limit. By how much? I have no clue. By the time the officer merged to the road from the side street, I had slowed down to his speed limit.

What I don't understand is how an officer's testimony is enough to have this ticket stick? So in other words, is the officer 100% correct 100% of the time when making a visual judgement call (no lidar/radar) on who is speeding/not speeding?

I have to prove that there is enough doubt, and I'm here asking if there is enough doubt to get this ticket dismissed.

Finally, this is exactly how it happened.

What will probably happen is that the cop admits he doesn't have your speed, but the fact that you were overtaking him when he was doing 30mph means you were speeding and therefore, not obeying the sign. He knows HIS speed.. So, he doesn't need YOUR speed to write that ticket.

Pretty crappy for a cop to write that ticket, and PROBABLY, if you hadn't replied the way you did to his question.. Just said "I don't believe I was speeding, however, I slowed down attempting to allow you to merge in front of me.".. He might have just let you go.

What I think, based on your story, your matching his speed made him think you were blocking him and being an asshat. Your response to his question likely backed that up in his mind. Whether it's what you were intending to do or not.

He's got a case.. You might get a judge who finds the ticket vindictive, which, if the story is accurate, I'm pretty sure it is. But.. Either way, i'd say it's worth going to court over. Nothing to lose by going but a little time.

boyd888 · 08-02-2016, 04:52 PM

You were speeding and the cop saw you were speeding, but you are just salty that you weren't caught by actual radar. Getting caught by pacing is lame and yes it will be you vs. the officer and the officer usually wins, but you can beat it. Definitely do not admit to being over the limit in court though lol.

So instead of arguing over whether the ticket is worth arguing over, why don't you check this article on beating these types of tickets:

How to beat a speeding ticket - Visual Estimate Testimony

Good luck.