NOVA's Greatschools' ratings dropped? What happened? (Arlington, Annandale: credit, home, neighborhood)

[melaniey]

I realize that that I should not take ratings on Greatschools.org too seriously but it seem like ratings of public schools in NOVA on Greatschools dropped across the board by a few points (on scale of 1-10) comparing to last year (I think). For example, top high schools in Fairfax County are Langley and West Spring Field which only got a rating of 8. I think Mclean, Oakton, Marshall, Madison, Woodson used to be 8 or higher but now only at 6 or 7. The same goes for elementary schools across NOVA, it seem. This is in contrast to schools in Montgomery county, MD -- all of them seem to have similar ratings to last year's. What happened? Anyone know?

[BOS2IAD]

Have you read the comments made about each school? Perhaps you will find the answer there.

[VAGeek]

The Greatschools scoring methodology changed for 2018. From the GS web site:

The Equity Rating is computed based upon the performance of disadvantaged groups and relative size of in-school gaps. These two components allow us to evaluate a school’s success in educating disadvantaged groups compared to students throughout the state, as well as compared specifically to other students at the school.

Thoughts from another forum:

It is based off achievement gap between esol and everyone else.

So even if 93% of your student body is scoring in the top 90-95% of the state, and your esol population of 7% is scoring above the state average, but say in the 70th percentile, it drops your entire school rating down significantly.

HOWEVER, if you have a school population that is mostly homogenous, all upper class with no measurable ESOL or at risk population, like Langley pyramid schools, you get full credit for no rating of at risk populations and the rating stays high.

So basically, the new scoring calculation significantly penalizes high performing schools with at risk/esol students of about 5-10% of the total school population because of the achievement gap, and rewards schools that have no measurable esol or at risk population because they have no achievement gap. The schools with a greater esol population seem to be ranking about the same as they always have.

It is a flawed methodology.

It looks like in FCPS, getting an equity score of 4 is on the higher end.

Langley test scores 9, equity 7, overall 8
West Springfield test scores 9, equity 6, overall 8

Marshall test scores 9, equity 4, overall 7
McLean test scores 9, equity 4, overall 7

Chantilly test scores 8, equity 4, overall 6
Lake Braddock test scores 8, equity 4, overall 6
Robinson test scores 8, equity 4, overall 6
Woodson test scores 8, equity 4, overall 6

Oakton test scores 8, equity 3, overall 6
Madison test scores 8, equity 2, overall 6

Centreville test scores 6, equity 3, overall 5
Fairfax test scores 6, equity 3, overall 5
South County test scores 6, equity 3, overall 5

South Lakes test scores 6, equity 2, overall 4
Westfield test scores 6, equity 2, overall 4

Edison test scores 5, equity 3, overall 4
Hayfield test scores 5, equity 2, overall 4

Annandale test scores 4, equity 3, overall 4
Falls Church test scores 4, equity 3, overall 4

Herndon test scores 4, equity 2, overall 3
West Potomac test scores 4, equity 1, overall 3

Lee test scores 3, equity 2, overall 3
Stuart test scores 3, equity 2, overall 3

Mount Vernon test scores 2, equity 2, overall 2

They are double counting the ESOL kids.

Their scores are already averaged in on the test score and then they get averaged in a second time with the equity score.

Unless you are a homogenous school like Langley with no measurable ESOL or poor population. Then you get bonus points on your diversity scale for not having any "poors"

It is a flawed system.

Just as an example, the "worst" high school in Arlington, Wakefield [now a 3/10], gets higher average SAT scores than the homogeneous schools in Anne Arundel and Calvert counties in MD (ranked 8/10 and above). All I care about is how my college bound kids will do in comparison to others like them; a GS rating is meaningless. The raw data is available to those who care to dig into the numbers.

[gutter2d]

What do they define as a “disadvantaged student”? At Wakefield in Arlington, wouldn’t the white students be defined as “disadvantaged students” since they make up such a small proportion of the student population?

[LuvVA]

Originally Posted by gutter2d

What do they define as a “disadvantaged student”? At Wakefield in Arlington, wouldn’t the white students be defined as “disadvantaged students” since they make up such a small proportion of the student population?

It's not based on small proportion of the student population.

Factors like free meal/financially disadvantaged kids are considered.

Current methodology is messed up and brought the ratings down.

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by LuvVA

Current methodology is messed up

In your opinion, it's messed up. In the opinion of greatschools.org, the old way was messed up. Either way, it's just a random's website assessment of schools. It doesn't mean anything at all. It's equivalent to a Zestimate...

[JD984]

Every one of these ratings is based on a slightly different methodology. SchoolDigger (and Great Schools previously) ranks based solely on unadjusted SOL scores. US News has a methodology that penalizes schools where certain populations (low-income and minority) don't meet certain benchmarks on state exams and, subject to that screen, rewards schools where higher percentages of students take and pass AP or IB exams. Great Schools now adjusts based on the SOL performance of different groups within a school, but disregards the scores of a particular cohort if the number of students in that group is very small. That can bring down the overall rating of schools where the average performance is high, but certain groups are represented in sufficiently high numbers and score significantly lower.

You could argue that the intent was noble, but the execution was flawed. For example, why should Langley get a 7 for "equity" when the school has virtually no low-income kids? On the other hand, shining a light on the fact that a school like Madison, which overall has very high test scores, isn't doing as good a job with its low-income and minority students as nearby Marshall might get the administration to focus more on those kids.

The most recent SAT scores for NoVa schools (Class of 2017):

TJ 1492 (FCPS)
Langley 1288 (FCPS)
McLean 1283 (FCPS)
George Mason 1244 (FCCPS)
HB Woodlawn 1244 (APS)
Yorktown 1241 (APS)
Madison 1240 (FCPS)
Woodson 1238 (FCPS)
Marshall 1230 (FCPS)
Chantilly 1226 (FCPS)
Washington-Lee 1224 (APS)
Oakton 1222 (FCPS)
South Lakes 1218 (FCPS)
Robinson 1195 (FCPS)
Lake Braddock 1192 (FCPS)
West Springfield 1188 (FCPS)
Herndon 1183 (FCPS)
Rock Ridge 1183 (LCPS)
Briar Woods 1176 (LCPS)
Broad Run 1175 (LCPS)
Stone Bridge 1174 (LCPS)
Freedom 1169 (LCPS)
Riverside 1169 (LCPS)
Centreville 1168 (FCPS)
Fairfax 1166 (FCPS)
Loudoun County 1163 (LCPS)
Loudoun Valley 1163 (LCPS)
Patriot 1162 (PWCPS)
Westfield 1157 (FCPS)
Woodgrove 1155 (LCPS)
Dominion 1153 (LCPS)
Battlefield 1149 (PWCPS)
South County 1145 (FCPS)
Potomac Falls 1144 (LCPS)
Osbourn Park 1143 (PWCPS)
Forest Park 1140 (PWCPS)
Heritage 1138 (LCPS)
John Champe 1131 (LCPS)
Woodbridge 1123 (PWCPS)
Tuscarora 1117 (LCPS)
Hayfield 1115 (FCPS)
Falls Church 1113 (FCPS)
West Potomac 1112 (FCPS)
Edison 1092 (FCPS)
Lee 1084 (FCPS)
Annandale 1082 (FCPS)
Wakefield 1079 (APS)
Hylton 1078 (PWCPS)
Gar-Field 1073 (PWCPS)
Park View 1069 (LCPS)
Stuart 1060 (FCPS)
Stonewall Jackson 1053 (PWCPS)
UNITED STATES 1044
Potomac 1034 (PWCPS)
Mount Vernon 1029 (FCPS)
Freedom 992 (PWCPS)
TC Williams 977 (ACPS)

[Oldhag1]

Those SAT scores are why my eyes practically roll out of my head every time someone makes negative comments about the school systems in NoVA. With rare exception, our "bad" schools outperform most districts' average schools and no small number of some districts' "best" schools.

Unless your kid is ESOL you need to ignore those scores, especially if that particular school has a high population of new arrivals, in particular those whose families arrived here without our government's permission. ESOL students range from those who barely understand Grandma because they hardly ever hear their native language at home to those who only hear English words when at school because no one in the family or neighborhood speaks it. No matter what blather about "the soft bigotry of low expectations" anyone makes, if you struggle to understand the language you are not going to do well on standardized testing - no matter how hard the school tries.

[Calikap]

Thank you for explaining this. We are planning a move from San Diego to the Ashburn area and have been researching middle and high schools. We noticed a significant drop in scores and wondered what happened. It is difficult picking a school based off of what you can find online. I guess we shouldn't put much weight on the GS scores. It sure is tricky finding reliable information other than the SOL scores. Thanks!

[LuvVA]

Originally Posted by Calikap

Thank you for explaining this. We are planning a move from San Diego to the Ashburn area and have been researching middle and high schools. We noticed a significant drop in scores and wondered what happened. It is difficult picking a school based off of what you can find online. I guess we shouldn't put much weight on the GS scores. It sure is tricky finding reliable information other than the SOL scores. Thanks!

You may also want to check SchoolDigger rankings. That might give you an idea of middle/high school rankings in VA (statewide rankings or countywide rankings).

High School Rankings


Middle School Rankings