TJ Admissions (Fairfax: dorm, magnet schools, college)

[JD984]

FCPS just released information on the latest group of students to be admitted next fall. The trends from recent years continue; Asian students will comprise almost 60% of next year's freshman class; the percentage of White students admitted was lower than the percentage of White students who applied; and the number of Black and Hispanic students admitted was truly de minimus (for example, only four of 187 Black students who applied were admitted).

Many would argue that this should come as little surprise, given the considerable emphasis that Asian families place on education, tutoring, etc., and that admitting White, Black or Hispanic students who scored lower than Asian students on the entrance exams would be an unfair form of reverse discrimination that discourages hard work.

As a matter of pure politics and social polity, however, I am wondering whether TJ is not close to reaching a "tipping point," where either TJ will soon be viewed simply as an "Asian school" where other students do not bother to apply, or the pressure to alter its admissions policies from Black, Hispanic and White parents will be overwhelming. Perhaps others who have first-hand experience with magnet schools such as Lowell in SF or Stuyvesant in NYC have insights here. I'm also curious as to whether, to the extent TJ is viewed as a Fairfax County school (rather than a state Governors School), the admissions trends may draw more Asian families to Fairfax and/or lead more White, Black and/or Hispanic families to prefer other jurisdictions such as Loudoun.

[CaliTerp07]

Originally Posted by JEB77

As a matter of pure politics and social polity, however, I am wondering whether TJ is not close to reaching a "tipping point," where either TJ will soon be viewed simply as an "Asian school" where other students do not bother to apply, or the pressure to alter its admissions policies from Black, Hispanic and even White parents will be overwhelming. Perhaps others who have first-hand experience with magnet schools such as Lowell in SF or Stuyvesant in NYC have insights here. I'm also curious as to whether, to the extent TJ is viewed as a Fairfax County school (rather than a state Governors School), the admissions trends may draw more Asian families to Fairfax and/or lead more White, Black and/or Hispanic families to prefer other jurisdictions such as Loudoun.

I didn't grow up here, so the first I heard of TJ was a few months ago, when one of my coworkers said she graduated from there.

What you're describing though, sounds a lot like how people talk about UC Berkeley, where I attended my first year of college. People whose children didn't get in (or who didn't get in themselves) bemoan the fact that it's too Asian, that the engineering school is all Indian or Chinese students. It hasn't stopped people of all races from applying there in record numbers though. The admissions process is what it is--a combination of test scores, essays, and grades. If you think you're the cream of the crop and will make it there, you'll apply.

Similarly, I think the overachiever kids of FFX who have their sights set on Harvard and MIT will continue to apply, regardless of ethnicity. My district had nothing like TJ when I was in high school (just 3 regular high schools in the whole district), but if it had, I definitely would have applied--even if I was the only blonde haired kid on campus. If you promised me a better shot at Harvard, i'd have done anything. I have a feeling most prospective TJers feel the same way.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by CaliTerp07

I didn't grow up here, so the first I heard of TJ was a few months ago, when one of my coworkers said she graduated from there.

What you're describing though, sounds a lot like how people talk about UC Berkeley, where I attended my first year of college. People whose children didn't get in (or who didn't get in themselves) bemoan the fact that it's too Asian, that the engineering school is all Indian or Chinese students. It hasn't stopped people of all races from applying there in record numbers though. The admissions process is what it is--a combination of test scores, essays, and grades. If you think you're the cream of the crop and will make it there, you'll apply.

Similarly, I think the overachiever kids of FFX who have their sights set on Harvard and MIT will continue to apply, regardless of ethnicity. My district had nothing like TJ when I was in high school (just 3 regular high schools in the whole district), but if it had, I definitely would have applied--even if I was the only blonde haired kid on campus. If you promised me a better shot at Harvard, i'd have done anything. I have a feeling most prospective TJers feel the same way.

That very well could be the case. Perhaps one analogy would be to the recent Supreme Court nomination: if Elena Kagan is confirmed, the Supreme Court would for the first time have no Protestants. It's something that has been noted repeatedly, but my overall sense is that the reaction from the public has been "that's interesting, OK, next topic." So perhaps that's how people in Fairfax County will also feel if TJ becomes not just majority, but super-majority, Asian in a few years time.

[Moonwalkr]

Is it discriminatory to accept students based on academics? I think with academics as the only criteria (besides residency), there is obviously going to be racial disparities based on test scores. Does that mean we need affirmative action for a magnate high school? There were 2 guys in my college freshmen dorm hallway who went to TJ, they were both white kids who ended up being physicians. You can be smart and non-Asian at the same time!

[qwertman]

the admissions policy is more in line with traditional admissions policy in many asian countries, so naturally the kids of immigrants from those countries have an advantage in this regard. These Asians can mostly also afford (and because of the above) much more likely to put their kids in test prep classes.

personally, I think they should look at adjusting the admissions policy a bit.

[smokemaster]

maybe they should hire BO to apologize to everyone.

[mac10]

Originally Posted by qwertman

the admissions policy is more in line with traditional admissions policy in many asian countries, so naturally the kids of immigrants from those countries have an advantage in this regard. These Asians can mostly also afford (and because of the above) much more likely to put their kids in test prep classes.



personally, I think they should look at adjusting the admissions policy a bit.

This doesn't make sense. TJ is a school for kids to excel in math and science. That is what they base the test and admissions on. If according to your theory asians have an advantage, for whatever reason, then they should be the ones admitted. I don't think they can afford the test prep classes more than anyone else, but perhaps they are more willing to pay for them.

[ggcjbw]

I definitely don't think that the admissions process is discriminatory (this coming from a white girl who was accepted back in the 80's but moved prior to matriculating). However, I think it does say something about the standard FCPS education that one receives simply by 'going to school.' Why should it be that the only way one can receive acceptance is by going to extra (expensive) classes and spending one's summer at math camp instead of the pool or soccer field? Presumably all the students who seek admission are bright or even gifted (if they attend the GT centers). What is it about a standard (read: unsupplemented) education from FCPS that doesn't cut it when it comes to the TJ test????

[Denton56]

Originally Posted by CaliTerp07

I didn't grow up here, so the first I heard of TJ was a few months ago, when one of my coworkers said she graduated from there.

What you're describing though, sounds a lot like how people talk about UC Berkeley, where I attended my first year of college. People whose children didn't get in (or who didn't get in themselves) bemoan the fact that it's too Asian, that the engineering school is all Indian or Chinese students. It hasn't stopped people of all races from applying there in record numbers though. The admissions process is what it is--a combination of test scores, essays, and grades. If you think you're the cream of the crop and will make it there, you'll apply.

Similarly, I think the overachiever kids of FFX who have their sights set on Harvard and MIT will continue to apply, regardless of ethnicity. My district had nothing like TJ when I was in high school (just 3 regular high schools in the whole district), but if it had, I definitely would have applied--even if I was the only blonde haired kid on campus. If you promised me a better shot at Harvard, i'd have done anything. I have a feeling most prospective TJers feel the same way.

Many, if not most, of the Asian and white boys (and some of the girls) attend TJ because it is the only school where they can get the advanced math, science, and computer science, they want to take. They know they want to major in math, science or engineering when they get to college and they know that TJ offers the best background for those fields. The other high schools simply do not have the advanced courses that they want to take and are prepared to take.

[claremarie]

Perhaps Fairfax County should consider a radical experiment -- establish a floor for test scores and grades that represents the ability to handle the work at TJ. Then put all of the applications meeting that numerical requirement in a box, to be randomly selected just like lottery numbers.
My guess is that the result would be a solid, racially balanced class that would still produce high-achieving math and science students. A side benefit would be to greatly reduce the stress and anxiety of the entire admissions process, and to remove the "I'm so special" and "I'm no good" labels that the winners and losers of the current admissions policy wear for years thereafter.
And maybe the other Fairfax County high schools would boost their upper-level science and math courses.