Was VDOT too aggressive in snow removal, leading to overspending? (Burke: cul-de-sac, houses)

[statecollege]

With snow melting, are you seeing damage caused by plows and other heavy snow removal equipment? Here are some things I have observed along our roads:

- Damaged guardrails
- Damaged curbs
- Torn off storm drain metal parts
- Damaged stone walls at community entrance landscaping
- Torn up asphalt

For example, for those of you who regularly travel Burke Center Pkwy, observe the guard railing on the south-side shoulder between about Burke Lake Rd and Ox Rd. It's bent and ripped from its mooring posts at regular intervals by an apparent drunk, tired, or unskilled front end loader operator tasked with removing snow from the shoulder . Check out the stone wall landscaping at the corner of Burke Center Pkwy and OX Rd near the elementary school there. Wanna bet the same operator did that? I contrast, guard rails along other streets are fine--different operator.

Some of the other damage goes with the territory of removing large snowfalls. A snow plow will occasionally unavoidably tear up a piece of asphalt. But, as noted above some of the damage was caused by unskilled equipment operators or, perhaps, questionable VDOT snow removal orders to contractors,or contractor initiative. VDOT is to some extent between a rock and a hard place on this, because it has to respond to tax payer complaints. I do believe, however, that snow removal reached a point where it became unnecessarily aggressive, leading to wasted state funds.

At some point the roads became adequately cleared in neighborhoods to allow residents to safely ingress and egress. But then heavy equipment came in to remove snow right to the curb. The problem is they deposited it on the sidewalks that residents had shoveled, which further contributed to delays in school openings.

Here's an anecdote from my street. I live on a West Springfield cul-de-sac street. Immediately after the last 2-ft storm some of the residents with large SUVs were able to exit to the main road before any plows got to us. The last half of the street had no such vehicles and residents were stranded for several days. After those residents lodged their complaints with VDOT, pickup-size contractor plows attempted to plow out the street. They maneuvered adequately on the already-traveled portion of the street but could not power their way through the deep snow in the untraveled portion. A day or two later, a Bobcat front end loader arrived and rescued the stranded residents by clearing a path to their homes. The operator was careful to not block driveways. However, in the process some shoveled sidewalk sections were reburied in huge piles. But that was OK--the snow had to be put somewhere. At that point we were fine; everyone could get out assuming they shoveled their driveways. Many reshoveled their sidewalks. Then two days later three huge multi-axle VDOT trucks with plows came down our street to widen the plowed area to the curbs, and in the process more walks were buried and shoveled driveways were blocked. Then a few days later another huge truck arrived to plow what little snow remained near the curb in places. After some days of melting on the well-plowed street, there was virtually no snow left, and blacktop was showing. But guess what shows up? Another huge VDOT truck that proceeds to deposit salt on the bare road!

What I have described was not necessarily consistent from street to street in my community. That is, all streets were eventually plowed and made passable but not all curb to curb. Perhaps the squeaky wheels got the oil, as they say.

So in the days, weeks, and months ahead we will hear about the deficit of funds for repairing roads and other damage incurred by the snow removal costs. I for one believe the state did a commendable job in getting the roads passable in extreme conditions, but I also believe the state needlessly overspent. It can't win, can it?

[Guamanians]

They did the best they could... The state overspends on other les important things IMO.

[rubytue]

The snow was higher than the guardrails. Snowplow operators don't have tools that let them see through the snow to know where guardrails are, so inevitably some will get destroyed in a snowfall this deep. And the goals are to plow curb to curb to allow for street parking. If they didn't plow your street curb to curb, then people would be complaining. Re-shoveling the sidewalk comes with the territory.

[ICS67]

On my dead-end, cul-de-sac street in South Reston with 15 houses, VDOT plowed very promptly after both of the major February storms, leaving a clear path in the street wide enough for one car to pass. No problem; everyone parks off-street in their driveway and/or garage, and there's not very much traffic anyway. About three days after the second storm, we then had a front-end loader come by and push the snow that remained on the street off into everybody's front yards (the operator at least didn't plow in anybody's driveway). While I appreciate VDOT's thoroughness, I don't know if this second plowing was really necessary -- not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but by the time the front-end loader showed up, large stretches of the road were already down to bare pavement. Given how Fairfax County had to put out a call for volunteers to clear school sidewalks and access paths, maybe that's where this extra effort should have been directed?

[ChristineVA]

Originally Posted by ICS67

While I appreciate VDOT's thoroughness, I don't know if this second plowing was really necessary -- not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but by the time the front-end loader showed up, large stretches of the road were already down to bare pavement.

If that hadn't done it, you would have noticed. I know because I also had the plow come through one time, leaving a one-lane strip. I was then left with HUGE mounds/humps of snow that extended about 6 feet out from my curb. The best we could do was clear a path away from the driveway. Then we were beat. A few days later, VDOT came back and went half-way down the street pushing the snow up into people's yards--essentially clearing the road right up to the curb. But they didn't come all the way down.

Well, we've had several 45 degree days in a row and those mounds are still there. I was out chipping away yesterday just to make the mailman's life easier but I cannot make any progress on those piles. Oh, how I envy those people at the top of the street. My neighbor still can't get is car parked on the street.

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by statecollege

With snow melting, are you seeing damage caused by plows and other heavy snow removal equipment? Here are some things I have observed along our roads:

- Damaged guardrails
- Damaged curbs
- Torn off storm drain metal parts
- Damaged stone walls at community entrance landscaping
- Torn up asphalt

For example, for those of you who regularly travel Burke Center Pkwy, observe the guard railing on the south-side shoulder between about Burke Lake Rd and Ox Rd. It's bent and ripped from its mooring posts at regular intervals by an apparent drunk, tired, or unskilled front end loader operator tasked with removing snow from the shoulder . Check out the stone wall landscaping at the corner of Burke Center Pkwy and OX Rd near the elementary school there. Wanna bet the same operator did that? I contrast, guard rails along other streets are fine--different operator.

Some of the other damage goes with the territory of removing large snowfalls. A snow plow will occasionally unavoidably tear up a piece of asphalt. But, as noted above some of the damage was caused by unskilled equipment operators or, perhaps, questionable VDOT snow removal orders to contractors,or contractor initiative. VDOT is to some extent between a rock and a hard place on this, because it has to respond to tax payer complaints. I do believe, however, that snow removal reached a point where it became unnecessarily aggressive, leading to wasted state funds.

At some point the roads became adequately cleared in neighborhoods to allow residents to safely ingress and egress. But then heavy equipment came in to remove snow right to the curb. The problem is they deposited it on the sidewalks that residents had shoveled, which further contributed to delays in school openings.

Here's an anecdote from my street. I live on a West Springfield cul-de-sac street. Immediately after the last 2-ft storm some of the residents with large SUVs were able to exit to the main road before any plows got to us. The last half of the street had no such vehicles and residents were stranded for several days. After those residents lodged their complaints with VDOT, pickup-size contractor plows attempted to plow out the street. They maneuvered adequately on the already-traveled portion of the street but could not power their way through the deep snow in the untraveled portion. A day or two later, a Bobcat front end loader arrived and rescued the stranded residents by clearing a path to their homes. The operator was careful to not block driveways. However, in the process some shoveled sidewalk sections were reburied in huge piles. But that was OK--the snow had to be put somewhere. At that point we were fine; everyone could get out assuming they shoveled their driveways. Many reshoveled their sidewalks. Then two days later three huge multi-axle VDOT trucks with plows came down our street to widen the plowed area to the curbs, and in the process more walks were buried and shoveled driveways were blocked. Then a few days later another huge truck arrived to plow what little snow remained near the curb in places. After some days of melting on the well-plowed street, there was virtually no snow left, and blacktop was showing. But guess what shows up? Another huge VDOT truck that proceeds to deposit salt on the bare road!

What I have described was not necessarily consistent from street to street in my community. That is, all streets were eventually plowed and made passable but not all curb to curb. Perhaps the squeaky wheels got the oil, as they say.

So in the days, weeks, and months ahead we will hear about the deficit of funds for repairing roads and other damage incurred by the snow removal costs. I for one believe the state did a commendable job in getting the roads passable in extreme conditions, but I also believe the state needlessly overspent. It can't win, can it?

Okay, so VDOT should have followed the standard on how to deal with 40 inches of snow in Northern VA? I agree. Wait, one problem, THERE AIN'T ONE!!!!!!

VDOT did what they could and it aint like they are snow experts from Buffalo.