Since so many Novans drive Prius', does the Toyota scuttlebutt affect traffic? (HOA, legally)

[ngadude]

Originally Posted by oneasterisk

Haven't encouraged people to carpool? Hmmm, I guess all those sluggers don't count? If the HOV wasn't there, do you think people would just decide to hitch hike into the city with a group of strangers for the fun of it? I don't think so...

Maybe those honking and flashing lights at a hybrid were so they could get out of the fast lane instead of driving 55mph so they can get the best gas mileage... I know that's a big pet peeve of mine.

No, the reports I heard were that the Prius driver was going just as fast as the driver in front of him.

My pet peeve is when some idiot is behind me tailgating me, when I can't go any faster since it would make me tailgate the person in front of me. I encounter this far too often on the roads here - and I usually don't drive the left lane either. On I-66 I'm in the center lane (of the non-HOV lanes) on weekends, and more often than not driving the same speed as the car in front of me - when some idiot will ride my tail and even sometimes flash their lights.

Some people really need to think about how they drive - especially those who are in such a hurry, and the car in front of them can't speed up anyway! Those kinds of drivers I have zero patience for. I generally only am in the left lane to pass, or if I'm in the left lane doing the same speed as the guy in front of me, I really hate it when someone behind me starts flashing their lights, etc.

The idea that some Prius drivers only drive 55 mph is silly. The Prius can save gas at 65 mph too. I've driven long distances actually at 72 mph or so on interstate highways rated at 65 mph (the Prius has a digital speedometer and I often set the cruise control for 72 and hang in the center lane pacing traffic) and have easily gotten 45 mpg at those speeds.

[GreenGene]

Originally Posted by normie

The way I see it, it's yet another reason to get rid of the HOV lanes. They haven't really accomplished their purpose (IMO). What I mean is, the lanes have not really encouraged people to carpool. IMO, just as many people will carpool with or without the lanes.

Normie, I totally disagree with that, at least with regard to the 95/395 HOV lanes. You only have to look at the popularity of the slug lines to realize that people making the daily commute on 95 see the value of getting into the HOV lanes. Depending on the timing and weather conditions, you can reduce commuting time by 50% or more by using the HOV lanes.

http://www.virginiadot.org/travel/re...ort8-15-03.pdf

"The HOV system in Northern Virginia is one of the most successful in the country. Every day, more than 37,000 commuters, using only 12,500 carpools, vanpools and buses, take advantage of the timesavings that HOV lanes provide. Based on average vehicle occupancies, without HOV lanes, it would take almost 30,000 vehicles to carry that same number of commuters.

"The 70 miles of HOV lanes on I-95, I-395, I-66, and the Dulles Toll Road help move more people in fewer vehicles than conventional lanes, and contribute significantly to the Metropolitan Washington region's air quality goals. An October 2000 report from the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments showed that during peak morning rush hours (6:00 AM to 9:00 AM), HOV lanes on I-395 north of Glebe Road each carry 3,800 people per hour versus conventional lanes that carry only 2,200 per hour during the same period."

The report was written in 2003, and if anything, the numbers have only increased during the ensuing years.

People stuck in the regular lanes on 95/395 during "rush" hour often get upset when they look over and see what they believe to be underutilized HOV lanes. But the lanes are doing what they have always done, and were intended to do - they have reduced the total number of vehicles on the road, and they have moved more people than the regular lanes.

During a 28-year span, I rode in a vanpool for 5 years, and I was a rider/driver in a carpool for 23 years. The HOV lanes have absolutely encouraged carpools and vanpools. People are generally quite willing to put up with the minor inconveniences of riding with others in exchange for a faster commute, and the most economical commute possible (other than slugging). An added bonus for us all - the fewer vehicles on the road, the less air pollution.

[ngadude]

Originally Posted by normie

Personally, I hope not. It was a good idea as a way to get people to make the paradigm shift to hybrid vehicles. Now that we have so many hybrid vehicles, I don't think it needs to be continued.

I agree with you - I think the law has served its purpose. Of course, it doesn't affect me as I don't drive any roads with HOV lanes during my commute. But, I think the intent of the law was to get people to buy hybrids. It worked, and now maybe it's gotten to the point the HOV lanes are becoming too full due to a lot of hybrids in them. I'm sure a lot of hybrid owners won't be happy if the law is allowed to expire (I thought I read it gets renewed each year or two). However, I kind of think it's the right thing to do. It was an excellent idea at the time it was put in place though - and probably did encourage a lot of hybrid sales.

[normie]

OK, since several of you disagree and you also happen to be people who I feel are pretty knowledgeable in this area, I'll concede. I'm no expert on the subject of traffic and over the years you've shown you know what you're talking about. Besides, it makes my day to hear that the HOV lanes are accomplishing their goal after all.

[ngadude]

Originally Posted by normie

Really? I hadn't heard that, but I find it interesting. Are they local stories? Do you have links?

The way I see it, it's yet another reason to get rid of the HOV lanes. They haven't really accomplished their purpose (IMO). What I mean is, the lanes have not really encouraged people to carpool. IMO, just as many people will carpool with or without the lanes. And if these accounts are true, apparently the HOV lanes aggravate people to point of causing dangerous driving. So let's be done with them. I like the HOT lane idea better. Free for carpools, but anyone else can use them too if they're willing to pay.

I'll have to see if I can dig it up. I do remember one horrifying story by a local hybrid owner of nearly being run off the road on I-66 in the HOV lane by some idiot who either thought the hybrid owner wasn't allowed to be in the HOV lane, or else knew she was and still wanted her out of the lane. She claimed to be going as fast as everyone else, but this guy actually tried to pass her on the shoulder after flashing lights/honking horn - and shouted some choice words at her too. I know I read this on some other website - but I can't remember where.

There are some people out there that suffer road rage, and just tend to act irrational on the roads. Hopefully they are few and far between, but unfortunately they do exist. It is not surprising someone either was ignorant of the hybrid law, or else was aware of it and decided to express their anger at it, here in the Northern VA area. I've seen enough crazy "road rage" drivers in my time that I don't doubt the story is true.

[ngadude]

Originally Posted by normie

OK, since several of you disagree and you also happen to be people who I feel are pretty knowledgeable in this area, I'll concede. I'm no expert on the subject of traffic and over the years you've shown you know what you're talking about. Besides, it makes my day to hear that the HOV lanes are accomplishing their goal after all.

I also have to say - since I don't have any personal knowledge of the HOV lanes in this area during commuter times, I would have to concede to those who are more knowledgeable about them - as to the question whether the hybrid HOV law should be continued or discontinued here in Northern VA. I am glad to hear the HOV lanes are working well, even with the presence of hybrids. I'm sure many hybrid owners really use that benefit, and would be very disappointed to see it go away.

[ngadude]

Here's a link to one story I remember - search for "run off the road" on this page in the comments section of a WTOP story on hybrids - Hybrids Can Keep Using Va.'s HOV Lanes - wtop.com

[normie]

In California when road rage would occur, you'd hear about it on the news and often see live coverage from the traffic helicopters. That's the kind of news tv stations can't get enough of. Virginia also has traffic helicopters and reporters who are just dying for a juicy story like that. So if it's happening here, it's likely you can find a media link about it. If there isn't a news story, IMO it was probably a minor incident (someone venting his rage by honking, not someone running another driver off the road) or a rumor.

[ngadude]

Originally Posted by normie

Well, in California when road rage would occur, you'd hear about it on the news and often see live coverage from the traffic helicopters. That's the kind of news tv stations can't get enough of. Virginia also has traffic helicopters and reporters who are just dying for a juicy story like that. So if it's happening here, it's likely you can find a media link about it. If there isn't a news story, IMO it was probably a minor incident (someone venting his rage by honking, not someone running another driver off the road) or a rumor.

I think you posted at the same time I posted the link above. Go look at it - and look at one nutty response from someone who seems to imply he would be more than happy to engage in such behavior if he saw a hybrid in the HOV lane.

So, it's sad but true that there are indeed stories about such behavior on local roads. I thought it was on WTOP's site that I read that - and a simple search turned up one mention of it - but not the one I really remember - I may have to dig some more in my spare time (not now) to find it.

Actually, the whole set of comments are really interesting - there's a lot of really ANGRY people out there that dislike hybrids in the HOV lanes.

There's some very interesting comments there on this link (I'll repost it again) - http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?ni...&comments=true

[bornindc]

Originally Posted by normie

Really? I hadn't heard that, but I find it interesting. Are they local stories? Do you have links?

The way I see it, it's yet another reason to get rid of the HOV lanes. They haven't really accomplished their purpose (IMO). What I mean is, the lanes have not really encouraged people to carpool. IMO, just as many people will carpool with or without the lanes. And if these accounts are true, apparently the HOV lanes aggravate people to point of causing dangerous driving. So let's be done with them. I like the HOT lane idea better. Free for carpools, but anyone else can use them too if they're willing to pay.

I have to disagree, the HOV lanes we have here helped make DC one of the highest-percentage cities for carpooling in the country. I now many (at least 10) people that pick up slugs or carpool with co-workers only because of the HOV lanes, otherwise they'd just travel by themselves. Why put up with having to coordinate schedules and picking up slugs if you won't save any time by using the HOV? For some stats, this is from the Washington Post, July 2, 2009:

The Washington area has one of the largest "commutersheds" of any urban area, with workers coming into the urban core from as far away as Pennsylvania and West Virginia, Ramfos said. Every day, about 3.6 million people commute into the area, and about 71 percent drive in alone, Ramfos said. That contributes to making the area among the most congested in the nation (third by some accounts), with commuters sitting in traffic an average of 69 hours a year.



Ramfos said the problem would be worse without Commuter Connections' efforts. About 18 percent of commuters use public transit, he said, the second-highest transit use in the country, behind New York. And 8 percent carpool and vanpool, which is the third-highest carpooling rate in the nation, after Los Angeles and Chicago. About 3 percent bike and walk. Additionally, nearly 20 percent of the workforce teleworks at least one day a week, Ramfos said.