Winchester: What's the "Catch?" (Richmond, Arlington: cul-de-sac, appointed, limousine)

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Got it. Sometimes, there can be a tendency for we suburbanites to speak of urban living in terms almost reminiscent of 1 Corinthians 13:11 ("yes, some day, you will put away your childish [urban] things and learn to dwell among the adult pod people of the Beltway").

LOL, that was pretty funny. And, good point! I should probably amend that to note that many people love urban living all the days of their lives even if many others do change their minds. I didn't mean to make it sound like it's a matter of putting away childish things, my point was more that people's tastes can change. Especially those of us who go through a phase where we hate-hate-hate suburbs and feel compelled to announce this hatred--ironically, we're the ones who seem most likely to change our minds.

At least that's how me and my friends were. In my circle of college friends, those of us who felt most compelled to shout our hatred from the rooftops were the ones who changed the most.

When we were in our young 20s we were absolutely convinced we would never want to live anywhere but Venice Beach. We shared a tiny apartment in a building that was falling apart, but "cool". My parent's suburb (Arlington) was "the pits" and I needed to make sure everyone knew I felt that way! Then time passed and my beach pad started looking ramshackle. And everytime I'd visit my parents I felt more and more comfortable back in Arlington. Now I love living in Nova. Go figure.

Getting back to Winchester, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Vermont college student one day returns and discovers Winchester looks good to him again. (Or maybe not. People aren't that predictable.)

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by arielmina

THIS

Burlington is a GREAT city and UVM is a great and fun school...however if this poster goes anywhere else in Vermont, they will also see very clearly that Vermont is a dying state, much more so than VA. At least you can find jobs here in VA. Not so, up there.

the unemployment rate in VT has been below the national rate since before the Great Recession started.


Unemployment - Google public data

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by Caladium

Beautifully said, and so true.

Suburbia and small towns appeal more to people as they get older. There are lots of exceptions, of course, but in general I recommend that anyone under the age of 25 live only in cities or artsy, hip towns. Soon enough urban streets and artsy towns will lose a lot of their appeal, and suburbs will seem more attractive. But that doesn't seem to happen until your late 20s or even into your 30s.

people over 30 who have CHILDREN typically want good public schools (generally in scare supply in central cities in the USA) almost always want larger amounts of living space (cheaper to procure, all other things being equal, in the suburbs) and often (wisely or not) believe high density living is unfavorable to children.

I am not particularly sure that for childless people between 30 and 50, say, that the preference for suburbia is nearly as strong. Of course there are childless 35YO who love the suburbs. But then there are 21 YOs who love the suburbs.

as for empty nesters I was shocked, shocked I tell you that in this urban empty nester - Google Search

a certain city data thread ranked so high

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

as for empty nesters I was shocked, shocked I tell you that in this urban empty nester - Google Search

a certain city data thread ranked so high

That is so cool, bbd! You're famous!

[brooklynborndad]

BTW, I grew up (you may have guessed) in Brooklyn, NY.

When I was 8 or so, I wished we lived in the suburbs, cause going outside unsupervised was an issue.

When I was 12, and could go outside unsupervised, I thought there was no place in the world better than Brooklyn.

When I was 15 I wanted to live - in MANHATTAN.

When I was 21, I respected Brooklyn.

At no time since then have I "loved" the suburbs. In my early 20s I lived in a suburban area, as the small city I lived in then had no city neighborhoods that met my needs. In the last 8 years I have lived in lovely Fairfax county, driven by schools and the cost of housing gradient.

As empty nesters, we are working on our strategy to return to a more urban lifestyle, whether in DC, NoVa, or Baltimore.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by Caladium

LOL, that was pretty funny. And, good point! I should probably amend that to note that many people love urban living all the days of their lives even if many others do change their minds. I didn't mean to make it sound like it's a matter of putting away childish things, my point was more that people's tastes can change. Especially those of us who go through a phase where we hate-hate-hate suburbs and feel compelled to announce this hatred--ironically, we're the ones who seem most likely to change our minds.

At least that's how me and my friends were. In my circle of college friends, those of us who felt most compelled to shout our hatred from the rooftops were the ones who changed the most.

When we were in our young 20s we were absolutely convinced we would never want to live anywhere but Venice Beach. We shared a tiny apartment in a building that was falling apart, but "cool". My parent's suburb (Arlington) was "the pits" and I needed to make sure everyone knew I felt that way! Then time passed and my beach pad started looking ramshackle. And everytime I'd visit my parents I felt more and more comfortable back in Arlington. Now I love living in Nova. Go figure.

Getting back to Winchester, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Vermont college student one day returns and discovers Winchester looks good to him again. (Or maybe not. People aren't that predictable.)

Oh, I know. I have a recollection of blaring a punk rock song about the horrors and unremitting boredom of the suburbs ("The Sound of the Suburbs" by the Members, to be exact) while home on winter break at my parent's house in the suburbs one year. Why they didn't just light a blow torch to the vinyl I'll never quite understand. And I didn't quote your post in mine because I didn't want you to think it was directed specifically at you.

I fall in the camp that finds things to like in both suburbs, cities and historic, medium-sized towns like Winchester. Our move to the suburbs followed some "adventures in urban living" not too dissimilar from what stpickrell described (including waking up on the wrong side of the yellow tape one morning when the police raided the house of our neighbors, who were much quieter than the noisy post-college kids who preceded them, though deadly enforcers in a local drug crew). We're pretty happy here now. But, even so, there are plenty of urban neighborhoods where I'd be happy to live some day - assuming I could afford them, which is probably a big assumption.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

At no time since then have I "loved" the suburbs. In my early 20s I lived in a suburban area, as the small city I lived in then had no city neighborhoods that met my needs. In the last 8 years I have lived in lovely Fairfax county, driven by schools and the cost of housing gradient.

Fair enough, I guess everyone's different. My love for suburbia developed at about age 25. I was still single at the time. But, that's just my story. Everyone's different.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Oh, I know. I have a recollection of blaring a punk rock song about the horrors of the suburbs ("The Sound of the Suburbs," to be exact) while home on winter break at my parent's house in the suburbs one year.

LOL that's so funny. I was quite the little punk rocker myself. Listened to the Ramones so much I wore the album out.

Anyway, we're getting off topic here. Back to Winchester!

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by JEB77

But, even so, there are plenty of urban neighborhoods where I'd be happy to live some day - assuming I could afford them, which is a big assumption.

"no one goes there anymore, its too crowded" Yogi Berra.

[South Jersey Styx]

Originally Posted by itslowell

After a semester at UVM, Winchester seems to me to be a city in limbo. The growth in Winchester was mainly being filled by NoVA money - people like yourself who were looking for an exurb of DC, with a bit different pace of life. That lasted until the burst of the housing bubble. Now just take a drive on Senseny Road, between Jim Barnett Park and Opequon Creek, and you'll see just where the recession hit Winchester.

Contrary to what you believe, the move here did not end with "the burst of the housing bubble". Perhaps it has slowed it, but I keep running into people who have moved to Winchester from NoVA or outside of the state. Just this past weekend, I went to a holiday party (yes, in town at a historic mansion A young couple we met relocated from Ashburn, her parents moved from Fairfax as well as her aunt and uncle and their family! So, this is virtually one very big family that all headed out of NoVa into Winchester. I've run into others from Loudoun Co, another woman from TX (within the last 5 yrs), one from Winchester who left for CA and now came back.

Things that I can remember not being in Winchester within my lifetime:
-Target
-Starbucks
-Home Depot
-A second Wal-Mart
-Best Buy
-Outback Steakhouse
-Any Indian or Thai food

There are two Targets, two Walmarts (yes a second one was built), two Lowes, a Home Depot, and several Indian restaurants including one on Pleasant Valley Rd that has an unbelievable Sunday brunch spread. We ate Thai with some friends visiting from Front Royal out on Valley Ave and there's an excellent Thai place on the walking mall. The new Best Buy just opened in Nov, right in time for the holidays and from the looks of the parking lot, appear to be doing well!

On the other end of the spectrum, examine places like National Avenue. Lots of low-income homes, and these aren't the houses people are moving in to with great number. So what eventually happens is that the salt-and-Earth is eventually priced out of town.

Old Town Development Board is citing some of those houses on National Ave as "blight" because owners refuse to fix them up. Take a look at the progress in the historic downtown, primarily b/c of the revitalization projects and you'll see that the projects have slowly worked towards Natl Ave. Just this Fall, a new park was finished by the police station (next to the train station) and new trees planted on the street along Piccadilly heading towards Natl Ave. There are some beautiful houses on National Ave that get overshadowed by the messed-up ones that need work, some small businesses, as well as George Washington's outlot. I think it's a matter of time before National Ave. looks very, very different.