What do people have against chain restaurants and suburbs? (Arlington: sales, crime)

[GoHokiesGo]

As one of the younger married people (I'm 26) that goes to Reston Town Center - I often go there to meet up with friends, and the large majority of them are unmarried or single friends. They suggest going to RTC just as often as I do, and have never had any complaints about it being a terrible place for single people.

I chose to live in Ashburn because it offered the most house for my money and was a better commute to work, which I drive to every single day instead of going downtown to bars on the weekends. I still go downtown and into Arlington nearly every single weekend, but Reston is a great close area to meet up with friends during the week or just to hang out. Do you single people not have friends that you hang out with? My habits didn't really change much once I got married as far as meeting friends goes. I still go and hang out with friends to chat and have drinks the same as I did when single or in college. You can still always go to clubs on the weekends with just a quick drive from the suburbs, it's not that difficult, and the clubs are only busy on the weekends anyways.

As far as chain restaurants go - There are several non-chain restaurants in Reston Town Center, have you bothered to focus on any of those? Just picking a few from their website:

• Busara Thai - one location, thai food is quite good
• Big Bowl -only 1 in DC area, only 8 nationwide, wow, huge chain
• Mon Ami Gabi -one of 5 nationwide, not exactly a "massive" chain
• Obi Sushi- only one
• Passionfish-excellent sushi/asian fusion
• The Tasting Room - wine bar owned by local VIRGINIA winery, doesnt get more local than that, the abc license for this place is part of the Boxwood Winery in middleburg

I mean, seriously, have you not tried half these places? Or do you only go to the chain restaurants so you guys can complain about them having no soul. M&S Grill off in the corner has $1.99 cheeseburgers during happy hour, I haven't found that anywhere, and happy hour lasts the entire night on fridays. Passionfish is fantastic food, and I've eaten at nearly half of the Washingtonian Top 100 restaurants, Passionfish is a good place. The Tasting Room is licensed on the alcohol license for Boxwood Winery located in Middleburg, not a bar license, their staff is very friendly and always gives me extra samples in addition to what I order. There may be a lot of chains, but there's plenty of other places as well.

Is the suburban town center the "end-all-be-all" ultimate nightlife location? Of course not, but you make it sound like it causes physical pain to go there. It's still a decent option with several places concentrated into one area, so you can park once and go to a few different places. Are there yuppies? sure, but I see way more yuppie, rich young people in Georgetown or Dupont or Arlington. How is it any different in that respect than half these places? It's not, and it's offers an option for people to go to that live closer to their daily jobs in the dulles/loudoun area.

[weezycom]

Originally Posted by Yankeesfan

No idea what the place was but if it was so good why would customers leave it for a chain?

Inox was a moderate-high priced restaurant and had the misfortune of opening in a space it paid to remodel in the heart of Tyson's Corner only a very few months before the economy tanked, and then when things were finally coming back, it got the second hit of the Metro extension tearing up all the roads around it, making it difficult to get to. Chains had little to nothing to do with its demise.

[JfromReston]

Originally Posted by GoHokiesGo

As far as chain restaurants go - There are several non-chain restaurants in Reston Town Center, have you bothered to focus on any of those? Just picking a few from their website:

• Busara Thai - one location, thai food is quite good
• Big Bowl -only 1 in DC area, only 8 nationwide, wow, huge chain
• Mon Ami Gabi -one of 5 nationwide, not exactly a "massive" chain
• Obi Sushi- only one
• Passionfish-excellent sushi/asian fusion
• The Tasting Room - wine bar owned by local VIRGINIA winery, doesnt get more local than that, the abc license for this place is part of the Boxwood Winery in middleburg

Thanks for the list - I've tried most and agree they are all good restaurants. Note: Busara has another restaurant on an out of the way street in Tysons. Busara is definatly a favorite of mine!

[Ashburnite]

There's a saying: To each his own

I live where I want to live for reasons of my own and go where I want to go for reasons of my own. I won't hassle you about your choices so don't hassle me about mine. Generalizations about race, gender, age, and socioeconomic status are being made with very little regard to the facts. What do we really know about the other posters here, anyway, except what they choose to share on a public message board? Raise your hand if you've ever met me in person. Perception of someone else's ideas and attitudes lies in the beholder.

[bmwguydc]

Please remember that this thread is about all suburbs and chain restaurants in the Northern Virginia region, and is not exclusively a discussion of Reston.

While discussions of Reston in the context of the original topic are appropriate, please remember that Tysons, Fairfax, Springfield, McLean, Burke, West Springfield, Annandale, Arlington, Manassas, Mount Vernon, Fredericksburg, Leesburg, and Ashburn are but a few of the areas that can be discussed in this thread. Thank you.

Some thoughts to consider on this topic, since it's a worthwhile disucssion of the culture in the region:
• Are there significant differences between local and national chain restaurants in NOVA?
• What is the difference in perception between areas closer-in, and those further from employment centers with regard to the level of chain restaurant participation in the local food and dining market?
• Would forcing the creation of mom & pop establishments in newer communities, either through business incentives/incubators/tax credits be akin to a false community? How can this be done in an area that has developed in the last few years, without being forced?
• How can an area, such as Leesburg, that has an established downtown core, complete with independent, fine and casual dining restaurants, coexist with the prevailing attitudes and tastes of more suburban areas that lie immediately to the east? How has this been accomplished in Arlington or Alexandria, or has it been in your opinion?
• Is travel to a dining destination not part of the foodie culture, such that one tends to appreciate the event of dining someplace unique that’s not around the corner from their own house? When pressed for time, or making a more local selection, do chains enter into the disucssion, or will you plan to drive for an hour in traffic to get to dinner?
• Would the addition of some chains, such as Sonic, Zaxby’s, or even outposts of smaller restaurants like Wolfgang’s own Chinois, change your opinion of “chains” in NOVA?
• Are there some local restaurants that you would like to see become chains, even if only locally/regionally? What would be the motivation for this?

[Yankeesfan]

Originally Posted by weezycom

Inox was a moderate-high priced restaurant and had the misfortune of opening in a space it paid to remodel in the heart of Tyson's Corner only a very few months before the economy tanked, and then when things were finally coming back, it got the second hit of the Metro extension tearing up all the roads around it, making it difficult to get to. Chains had little to nothing to do with its demise.

That happened also with the Landsdowne shopping center near the Kingstowne library and Fort Belvoir. It was fairly new and had a lot of small places still developing a customer base when Woodlawn Road and the gate to Fort Belvoir were closed after September 11th and business dropped dramatically, driving some places to close rather than renew their leases. Eventually the gate reopened for Fort Belvoir employees and now if you go to the shopping center at lunchtime and sometimes after work you can barely get a parking space. So yes, sometimes it is just a matter of timing and circumstances.

[Bigfoot424]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Yes, I've seen it. It's a cross between the Reston Connection and the Onion. From scanning recent posts, it appears that Bigfoot may have been seen recently in Reston (presumably, until he got too close to a chain restaurant, whereupon he feared for his soul and beat a hasty retreat) and that the Reston civic groups support the Silver Line and additional high-density developments so long as they are concentrated near the new stations. The latter hardly strikes me as the height of regressive NIMBYism.

Hey now. Leave me out of this.

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

Please remember that this thread is about all suburbs and chain restaurants in the Northern Virginia region, and is not exclusively a discussion of Reston.

While discussions of Reston in the context of the original topic are appropriate, please remember that Tysons, Fairfax, Springfield, McLean, Burke, West Springfield, Annandale, Arlington, Manassas, Mount Vernon, Fredericksburg, Leesburg, and Ashburn are but a few of the areas that can be discussed in this thread. Thank you.

•Would the addition of some chains, such as Sonic, Zaxby’s, or even outposts of smaller restaurants like Wolfgang’s own Chinois, change your opinion of “chains” in NOVA?

Yes it would change my opinion slightly. I've had the time of my life biting into a Sonic burger and some Hardee's biscuits. MMMMM!!! And a big plus is that the workers actually speak English here. I'm still all for supporting local business but I like having those two options out here. I think NoVA would go crazy with those two resturants here.

[seiketsu]

Originally Posted by bmwguydc

Some thoughts to consider on this topic, since it's a worthwhile disucssion of the culture in the region:

•Are there significant differences between local and national chain restaurants in NOVA?

Maybe. Local chains like Busboys and Poets started out at single locations and branched out because they did so well. They did so well because they are GOOD. National chains are familiar and safe, but for people who don't eat out that often or have picky eaters, sometimes it's a better bet to spend your $50 on familiar and safe, where you know exactly what you'll get, than "original" -- which is often hit and miss.

Tangent about familiar and safe: There was an article in the New York Times a week or two ago about why a chef disapproved of children's menus. He wrote that parents should expose their children to a wide range of high-quality food while they're young, not let them dictate that they'll only eat macaroni and cheese and chicken fingers. The rationale behind children's menus -- cheaper, easier -- doesn't really fly when kids can just eat a portion of their parent's "adult" meal. Picky children grow up to be picky adults, like my sister, who refuses to eat anywhere that deviates from the Standard American Diet (e.g., steakhouse).

•What is the difference in perception between areas closer-in, and those further from employment centers with regard to the level of chain restaurant participation in the local food and dining market?

I think there is a misconception that urban = local and suburb = chain. Have you walked through Chinatown? Writing Ruby Tuesday in Chinese characters doesn't exactly provide soul or hide the fact that 90% of the neighborhood is chains. The best food in the region tends to be the little takeout places in soulless, suburban strip malls straddling wide arterial roads.

Closer-in areas tend to have upmarket chains like Ruths & Chris or Clydes. By the time you get far from an urban area, the Ruby Tuesday or Applebees becomes the height of luxury. Don't forget the all-you-can-eat buffets at Shoneys, Ryans, Cracker Barrel.

My high school prom dinner was at Olive Garden, and in my hometown, you only went to the Olive Garden for very special events. I didn't feel like my hometown had any more soul than any other place just because it was not an affluent area and people lived there for generations, scraping to make ends meet. In fact, all that small-town, downtrodden atmosphere made it pretty suffocating. Couldn't wait to leave, will never go back.

•Would forcing the creation of mom & pop establishments in newer communities, either through business incentives/incubators/tax credits be akin to a false community? How can this be done in an area that has developed in the last few years, without being forced?

Hmmm. Have to think about that one. I'm not of the mind that independently owned ALWAYS EQUALS better, and that chain/franchise is inherently bad. Both employ people in the local community. The chain is more likely to provide continued employment. If you work at a new local restaurant, chances are it will fail within the first year. If you work at Red Lobster, chances are you can keep that job until you decide it's time to move on.

If the issue is about variety/quality of food, again, sometimes good chains do this better. I challenge anyone to beat the menu at Cheesecake Factory.

That said, if anyone is willing to open a Turkish or Moroccan restaurant, you have my full support. These two cuisines are sorely underrepresented in the DC area.

•How can an area, such as Leesburg, that has an established downtown core, complete with independent, fine and casual dining restaurants, coexist with the prevailing attitudes and tastes of more suburban areas that lie immediately to the east? How has this been accomplished in Arlington or Alexandria, or has it been in your opinion?

Different cuisines and different price points appeal to different people at different times. Sure, some people probably eat the same place or type of place every single time, but most probably visit a range. It's not a zero-sum game. When grandma visits, we go to fine dining restaurants so I can impress her with my sophistication. When dad visits, we get Ethiopian or Lebanese takeout to show off the worldliness. When I hang out with friends, we go to wine bars. When I'm grabbing a quick lunch at work, I go to Subway. Sometimes I'll hit all of these places within a day or two.

•Is travel to a dining destination not part of the foodie culture, such that one tends to appreciate the event of dining someplace unique that’s not around the corner from their own house? When pressed for time, or making a more local selection, do chains enter into the disucssion, or will you plan to drive for an hour in traffic to get to dinner?

I am willing to try different restaurants as part of a wider plan to visit an area or neighborhood, but I generally don't travel out of my way for the sole purpose of trying something new. I'm far more interested in exploring options in my vicinity, so it'll be easier to return. It's also good to know, when you are craving belgian waffles at 10pm, where you can go within a five-mile radius.

A tangent related to dining as a destination: I reject the idea that food defines a place. Yes, lack of good food can define a place. But I think about all the world travelers who sneer at Americans (and they're always American, aren't they?) who go to Europe and eat at McDonald's. Nevermind that American tourists aren't keeping these chains in business -- plenty of people in the local community frequent these establishments. But there is a snobbery against going with the safe option on the run. Having eaten at my fair share of really, really bad restaurants in the name of sampling the local cuisine, I have no problem if others want to stretch their dollars and spend more on hotel, attractions, shopping, etc. You are not a failure if you don't eat only "authentic" cuisine at Zagat-rated restaurants -- or "mingle with the locals" at some hole-in-the-wall teahouse...Lonely Planet, I'm looking at YOU.

•Would the addition of some chains, such as Sonic, Zaxby’s, or even outposts of smaller restaurants like Wolfgang’s own Chinois, change your opinion of “chains” in NOVA?

Sonic would be awesome. As would London-based Wagamama (a noodle bar, I think there's one in New York.)

•Are there some local restaurants that you would like to see become chains, even if only locally/regionally? What would be the motivation for this?

I would like to see some of the ethnic eateries like Dukem become national chains, to expose more people to different cuisines. There really is a void between the East Coast and West Coast (and selected large urban areas between the coasts) when it comes to global variety. You'd have more children growing up with a taste for sushi if it were more widely available at a Value Meal price point.

[pcity]

Originally Posted by seiketsu

Tangent about familiar and safe: There was an article in the New York Times a week or two ago about why a chef disapproved of children's menus. He wrote that parents should expose their children to a wide range of high-quality food while they're young, not let them dictate that they'll only eat macaroni and cheese and chicken fingers. The rationale behind children's menus -- cheaper, easier -- doesn't really fly when kids can just eat a portion of their parent's "adult" meal. Picky children grow up to be picky adults, like my sister, who refuses to eat anywhere that deviates from the Standard American Diet (e.g., steakhouse).

There's so, so very much to respond to in this thread (essays could be written based on bmwguy's questions alone) but this point caught my eye for some reason.

I'm not so sure I agree with this chef. Children have very strong taste buds. Stuff that's too spicy, too bitter, too sour affects them a lot more than it affects adults. It's not really their fault that they're picky and prefer bland chain food. Bland food tastes a lot less bland to their taste buds. As they grow up, their taste buds dull and they become spice-eaters and coffee-drinkers. I'm a perfect example- couldn't even eat Doritos as a kid but now I'll put hot sauce on anything.

Another interesting thing is that it seems like trendy eateries are expanding into "comfort food". I've seen macaroni and cheese in more and more places it seems. So while chains still have the kids market wrapped up, more local places are becoming a little more kid-friendly with their menus.