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Old 10-25-2010, 02:38 PM
 
320 posts, read 713,679 times
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I've been to Munster plenty of times and never ran into any racism. However, I've heard by many people (mostly African Americans) say that Muster is very racist towards Blacks. I notice that city is becoming more diverse with a lot of Asians, Indans, Hispanics and multiracial families moving in. However, I don't see a lot of Black families except for multi-racial ones.

I'm not trying to get people riled up, but I ran across this article about a a couple being denied a condo by the Autumn Ridge Condo Assoc. in Munster after finding out they were Black. I know a few African Americans who lived in Munster within the past few years and found it to be very uncomfortable to say the least.

Check out this article and tell me what you think?
Munster condo group to pay $120,000 in racial bias case :: Lake County :: Post-Tribune (http://www.post-trib.com/news/lake/2826288,autumnridge1023.article - broken link)

Does this happen throughout Munster or is it just the people at this Condo Association?

 
Old 10-25-2010, 03:47 PM
 
2,155 posts, read 5,450,544 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburban_boy View Post
I've been to Munster plenty of times and never ran into any racism. However, I've heard by many people (mostly African Americans) say that Muster is very racist towards Blacks. I notice that city is becoming more diverse with a lot of Asians, Indans, Hispanics and multiracial families moving in. However, I don't see a lot of Black families except for multi-racial ones.

I'm not trying to get people riled up, but I ran across this article about a a couple being denied a condo by the Autumn Ridge Condo Assoc. in Munster after finding out they were Black. I know a few African Americans who lived in Munster within the past few years and found it to be very uncomfortable to say the least.

Check out this article and tell me what you think?
Munster condo group to pay $120,000 in racial bias case :: Lake County :: Post-Tribune (http://www.post-trib.com/news/lake/2826288,autumnridge1023.article - broken link)

Does this happen throughout Munster or is it just the people at this Condo Association?
This was a very shameful situation. As far as I know, this is the only time that this has happened in Munster (at least as overtly).

Munster (as a whole) is not a racist town. It is just, Munster does not tolerate "black ghettoness" or "white trashyness" or " hispanic choloness", or trashyness of any race/ethnicity of any kind. The one problem I do see a bit in Munster is classism. The thing is that, if you can afford to live in one of the upscale neighborhoods, or even misscale neighborhoods, you will have absolutely no problem. If you move to the northwest side of town into one of the small duplexes, some people will not accept you unless you plan to tear down the duplex and replace it with a big home (as has been happening recently). Also, with the exception of Highland, Munster is pretty much the only mature suburb that is NOT going downhill and residents of all races and ethnicities want to keep it that way. Because of the high real estate prices (one of the highest in the state), Munster has been able to keep out most of the riff-raff. In the northwest side of town, that is where the most affordable housing, the majority of the rentals, and the majority of the crime is. It is not really a coincidence nor is it a surprise that this is the case. The WORST crimes in Munster have happened in that area of town. The part of town where the condo was located is near this area. However, since it was a condo (and not an apt), most people do not worry about who moves in/out. People in this town could probably care less what color/ethnicity one is as long as they keep up their property and respect the town. Being a minority, I never really felt uncomfortable in this town. In fact, I felt more uncomfortable in places like Hammond where some areas were really changing for the worse and residents were really on the defensive.

I also want to add that many students who move into Munster from less desirable areas are under pressure to leave any undesirable qualities from their former area in the past and conform. In a way this is a good thing because many students (of all races) have come in a thug and turned into a clean-cut student. Munster places a LOT of pressure on having good residents at all income levels. However, while it seems as though the town is getting more expensive and out-of-reach for riff-raff, the snob factor (with all races/ethnicities) increases. IMHO, I would rather have a snob factor than a crime factor .

I hope this answers your question! Munster racist? No. Classist? Maybe.

You have to remember. Many people (of all races/ethncities) who live in Munster now moved from areas that are now not very nice. And this is one town where residents are simply refusing to move further south. The desirability of this town is still very high and also due to the fact that "moving further south" is not as popular as it was before (especially considering the whole Lake Central school overcrowding situation) people are staying put and keeping crap away from the town. What the condo association did was absolutely wrong. This couple qualified to buy a place and were rejected because "they had minor children" (a BS excuse). Had they had criminal backgrounds, this would be a different story. But as far as I know, there was no indication of such. I applaud this ruling.

Last edited by Northwest Indiana; 10-25-2010 at 04:01 PM..
 
Old 10-25-2010, 05:37 PM
 
811 posts, read 2,323,372 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
This was a very shameful situation. As far as I know, this is the only time that this has happened in Munster (at least as overtly).

Munster (as a whole) is not a racist town. It is just, Munster does not tolerate "black ghettoness" or "white trashyness" or " hispanic choloness", or trashyness of any race/ethnicity of any kind. The one problem I do see a bit in Munster is classism. The thing is that, if you can afford to live in one of the upscale neighborhoods, or even misscale neighborhoods, you will have absolutely no problem. If you move to the northwest side of town into one of the small duplexes, some people will not accept you unless you plan to tear down the duplex and replace it with a big home (as has been happening recently). Also, with the exception of Highland, Munster is pretty much the only mature suburb that is NOT going downhill and residents of all races and ethnicities want to keep it that way. Because of the high real estate prices (one of the highest in the state), Munster has been able to keep out most of the riff-raff. In the northwest side of town, that is where the most affordable housing, the majority of the rentals, and the majority of the crime is. It is not really a coincidence nor is it a surprise that this is the case. The WORST crimes in Munster have happened in that area of town. The part of town where the condo was located is near this area. However, since it was a condo (and not an apt), most people do not worry about who moves in/out. People in this town could probably care less what color/ethnicity one is as long as they keep up their property and respect the town. Being a minority, I never really felt uncomfortable in this town. In fact, I felt more uncomfortable in places like Hammond where some areas were really changing for the worse and residents were really on the defensive.

I also want to add that many students who move into Munster from less desirable areas are under pressure to leave any undesirable qualities from their former area in the past and conform. In a way this is a good thing because many students (of all races) have come in a thug and turned into a clean-cut student. Munster places a LOT of pressure on having good residents at all income levels. However, while it seems as though the town is getting more expensive and out-of-reach for riff-raff, the snob factor (with all races/ethnicities) increases. IMHO, I would rather have a snob factor than a crime factor .

I hope this answers your question! Munster racist? No. Classist? Maybe.

You have to remember. Many people (of all races/ethncities) who live in Munster now moved from areas that are now not very nice. And this is one town where residents are simply refusing to move further south. The desirability of this town is still very high and also due to the fact that "moving further south" is not as popular as it was before (especially considering the whole Lake Central school overcrowding situation) people are staying put and keeping crap away from the town. What the condo association did was absolutely wrong. This couple qualified to buy a place and were rejected because "they had minor children" (a BS excuse). Had they had criminal backgrounds, this would be a different story. But as far as I know, there was no indication of such. I applaud this ruling.
What is your support for the claim above in red stating that Munster and Highland are the only towns in the area not going downhill? You think that Dyer, St. John, Schererville, Valpo, Chesterton, and Crown Point are all going downhill? Or are you saying that all of these towns are not a mature suburb (that's another discussion that I'd rather not get into because the term "mature" is a hard to define)? Also, I could look into the stats, but I think many would say that Highland is going downhill. I just find it interesting that: 1) you say Highalnd isn't going downhill and 2) that all of the other aforementioned towns either are not mature or are going downhill.

Last edited by svillechris; 10-25-2010 at 05:51 PM..
 
Old 10-25-2010, 06:08 PM
 
2,155 posts, read 5,450,544 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by svillechris View Post
What is your support for the claim above in red stating that Munster and Highland are the only towns in the area not going downhill? You think that Dyer, St. John, Schererville, Valpo, Chesterton, and Crown Point are all going downhill? Or are you saying that all of these towns are not a mature suburb (that's another discussion that I'd rather not get into because the term "mature" is a hard to define)? Also, I could look into the stats, but I think many would say that Highland is going downhill. I just find it interesting that: 1) you say Highalnd isn't going downhill and 2) that all of the other aforementioned towns either are not mature or are going downhill.
What I said: Also, with the exception of Highland, Munster is pretty much the only ***mature*** suburb that is NOT going downhill

What you claim I said: What is your support for the claim above in red stating that Munster and Highland are the only towns in the area not going downhill?

See the difference???



Munster is pretty much landlocked and cannot annex anymore land, which is one of many characteristics that makes it mature. Dyer, Saint john, Schererville, Valpo, Chesterton, and Crown Point are NOT going downhill at all and you KNOW that I was not implying that! (And in the other thread I voted Saint John as the next best town and Dyer a runner-up). I said of the mature towns (meaning Munster, Highland, Gary, E.C., Hammond, Whiting aka almost 100% developed towns), that Munster and Highland are the only towns not going downhill...I said the only MATURE TOWNS not going downhill. Those towns you mentioned are not near being 100% built out like Munster is which is why I do not necessarily classify them as mature (by this areas standards). Also, Highland (as a whole) is not going downhill, but I would say parts of it are.

And once again, regarding where u stated "1) you say Highalnd isn't going downhill and 2) that all of the other aforementioned towns either are not mature or are going downhill".......for #1) I should have been more clear and stated that not all of Highland is going downhill (ex: Arbor Hills, White Oak of Highland) and for #2) did I say that it was either or? Did I even mention those other towns? No, I did not.

Last edited by Northwest Indiana; 10-25-2010 at 06:28 PM..
 
Old 10-25-2010, 06:33 PM
 
829 posts, read 2,076,554 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
This was a very shameful situation. As far as I know, this is the only time that this has happened in Munster (at least as overtly).

Munster (as a whole) is not a racist town. It is just, Munster does not tolerate "black ghettoness" or "white trashyness" or " hispanic choloness", or trashyness of any race/ethnicity of any kind. The one problem I do see a bit in Munster is classism. The thing is that, if you can afford to live in one of the upscale neighborhoods, or even misscale neighborhoods, you will have absolutely no problem. If you move to the northwest side of town into one of the small duplexes, some people will not accept you unless you plan to tear down the duplex and replace it with a big home (as has been happening recently). Also, with the exception of Highland, Munster is pretty much the only mature suburb that is NOT going downhill and residents of all races and ethnicities want to keep it that way. Because of the high real estate prices (one of the highest in the state), Munster has been able to keep out most of the riff-raff. In the northwest side of town, that is where the most affordable housing, the majority of the rentals, and the majority of the crime is. It is not really a coincidence nor is it a surprise that this is the case. The WORST crimes in Munster have happened in that area of town. The part of town where the condo was located is near this area. However, since it was a condo (and not an apt), most people do not worry about who moves in/out. People in this town could probably care less what color/ethnicity one is as long as they keep up their property and respect the town. Being a minority, I never really felt uncomfortable in this town. In fact, I felt more uncomfortable in places like Hammond where some areas were really changing for the worse and residents were really on the defensive.

I also want to add that many students who move into Munster from less desirable areas are under pressure to leave any undesirable qualities from their former area in the past and conform. In a way this is a good thing because many students (of all races) have come in a thug and turned into a clean-cut student. Munster places a LOT of pressure on having good residents at all income levels. However, while it seems as though the town is getting more expensive and out-of-reach for riff-raff, the snob factor (with all races/ethnicities) increases. IMHO, I would rather have a snob factor than a crime factor .

I hope this answers your question! Munster racist? No. Classist? Maybe.

You have to remember. Many people (of all races/ethncities) who live in Munster now moved from areas that are now not very nice. And this is one town where residents are simply refusing to move further south. The desirability of this town is still very high and also due to the fact that "moving further south" is not as popular as it was before (especially considering the whole Lake Central school overcrowding situation) people are staying put and keeping crap away from the town. What the condo association did was absolutely wrong. This couple qualified to buy a place and were rejected because "they had minor children" (a BS excuse). Had they had criminal backgrounds, this would be a different story. But as far as I know, there was no indication of such. I applaud this ruling.

I am glad to hear that you are against blatant racism. Can you blame middle class and affluent african americans for not wanting to spend there hard earned incomes moving to an area where practices like this still go on, and are locally acceptable practices. And a place where many of there neighbors if given a vote, would vote not to have them living next door to them. Good thing the federal government found out about this and was able to educate these backwards people. I would truly be embarrassed to live in that condo complex, that is for sure.

Last edited by allen2323; 10-25-2010 at 06:43 PM..
 
Old 10-25-2010, 06:39 PM
 
2,155 posts, read 5,450,544 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen2323 View Post
I am glad to hear that you are atleast against blatant racism. Can you blame middle class and affluent african americans for not wanting to spend there hard earned incomes moving to an area where practices like this still go on. And many of your neighbors if given a vote, would vote not to have any black family living next to them. I would truly be embarrassed to live in that condo complex, that is for sure.
100% false...It just so happens that out of the 20 households on my street, 4 are Black (3 African, 1 African-American) and 5 are Asian. And out of the 11 remaining Whites, 4 are foreign.....nobody has objected to my family or the other minorities living on the street (especially since the second home built on the block was by a Black family)..I have to ask though...you have stated that you have not been to Indiana many times at all...so how do you come up with that conclusion that most of my neighbors would vote that when you A) don't even know where I live, and B) are not even familiar with the area? Do you have any statistical information to back that claim? And if you are judging your claim based upon this condo stuff, then statistically, it is not only insignificant, it is laughable to judge a whole town based on this ONE incident....If this happened 10 times, I would be much more likely to agree with you. But no, you are 100% wrong in your claim.
 
Old 10-25-2010, 07:08 PM
 
811 posts, read 2,323,372 times
Reputation: 644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
What I said: Also, with the exception of Highland, Munster is pretty much the only ***mature*** suburb that is NOT going downhill

What you claim I said: What is your support for the claim above in red stating that Munster and Highland are the only towns in the area not going downhill?

See the difference???



Munster is pretty much landlocked and cannot annex anymore land, which is one of many characteristics that makes it mature. Dyer, Saint john, Schererville, Valpo, Chesterton, and Crown Point are NOT going downhill at all and you KNOW that I was not implying that! (And in the other thread I voted Saint John as the next best town and Dyer a runner-up). I said of the mature towns (meaning Munster, Highland, Gary, E.C., Hammond, Whiting aka almost 100% developed towns), that Munster and Highland are the only towns not going downhill...I said the only MATURE TOWNS not going downhill. Those towns you mentioned are not near being 100% built out like Munster is which is why I do not necessarily classify them as mature (by this areas standards). Also, Highland (as a whole) is not going downhill, but I would say parts of it are.

And once again, regarding where u stated "1) you say Highalnd isn't going downhill and 2) that all of the other aforementioned towns either are not mature or are going downhill".......for #1) I should have been more clear and stated that not all of Highland is going downhill (ex: Arbor Hills, White Oak of Highland) and for #2) did I say that it was either or? Did I even mention those other towns? No, I did not.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I figured it had something to do with the definition of mature. I just didn't want the statement "Munster is pretty much the only mature suburb that is NOT going downhill" to me misinterpreted by a reader of these boards not familiar with NWI who may not have fully understood that you were referring to only mature towns. I know that you think pretty highly of St. John and Dyer, so that's why I was confused at first. Thanks again for clarifying.

As for the topic of this post, the answer is no. Haven't we learned that 1 single incident in a town should not be representative of a the town's residents or the overall safety of the town? If this were to happen time and time again, there MAY be some credibility to this claim. But reading this one-time article and asking if everyone in the town is that way? Give me a break. Munster is a great town, with fantastic residents who care a lot about their town, homes, and children.
 
Old 10-25-2010, 07:34 PM
 
2,155 posts, read 5,450,544 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by svillechris View Post
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I figured it had something to do with the definition of mature. I just didn't want the statement "Munster is pretty much the only mature suburb that is NOT going downhill" to me misinterpreted by a reader of these boards not familiar with NWI who may not have fully understood that you were referring to only mature towns. I know that you think pretty highly of St. John and Dyer, so that's why I was confused at first. Thanks again for clarifying.

As for the topic of this post, the answer is no. Haven't we learned that 1 single incident in a town should not be representative of a the town's residents or the overall safety of the town? If this were to happen time and time again, there MAY be some credibility to this claim. But reading this one-time article and asking if everyone in the town is that way? Give me a break. Munster is a great town, with fantastic residents who care a lot about their town, homes, and children.
No problem! I have absolutely no objections to clarifying myself if need be.
 
Old 10-25-2010, 08:35 PM
 
829 posts, read 2,076,554 times
Reputation: 287
Also, David Haddox, Kourtney Valentine, and their children are the people who deserve the apology. I am so glad that they stood up for themselves. Thank god for people as strong willed as them. Most of the victims before them probably just cowered away in embarrassment and humiliation to prevent themselves from being further embarrassed by falsely accussing these sweat and lovely folks of being racist. This is exactly what those evil condo residents wanted them to do and had pretty much being counting on as I am sure that this was not there first time at it. I know, I am sure that they were just trying to stop "ghetto blacks" from moving in. But, now the embarrassment lays at the doorstep of those who truly deserve to be embarrassed. I am sure David Haddox, Kourtney Valentine, and their children probably don't want to live there anymore anyway, but atleast they made there point loud and clear and did not just cowered away like most of the victims before them.
 
Old 10-25-2010, 08:40 PM
 
2,155 posts, read 5,450,544 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen2323 View Post
Also, David Haddox, Kourtney Valentine, and their children are the people who deserve the apology. I am so glad that they stood up for themselves. Thank god for people as strong willed as them. Most of the victims before them probably just cowered away in embarrassment and humiliation to prevent themselves from being further embarrassed by falsely accussing these sweat and lovely folks of being racist. This is exactly what those evil condo residents wanted them to and had pretty much being counting on as I am sure that this was not there first time at it. I know, I am sure that they were just trying to stop "ghetto blacks" from moving in. But, now the embarrassment lays at the doorstep of those who truly deserve to be embarrassed. I am sure David Haddox, Kourtney Valentine, and their children probably don't want to live there anymore anyway, but atleast they made there point loud and clear and did not just cowered away like most of the victims before them.
Yes, they derserve an apology. You are correct on that. Anybody with a soul would agree with that. But once again, you are generalizing this whole condo development. Did you know that the actual owner of the condo (who was white) was just as appalled as the family? The owner did not reject the sale, the ASSOCIATION DID. Maybe you should actually read the court documents before you open your mouth (or turn on the computer). And also, do you know all the 100+ residents of the condo? Have you talked to them? Do you personally know that these "evil condo residents" wanted this? Do you even know where the condo is?!

And finally, can you answer my question? In case you forgot:

I am looking for justification for what you said, mainly:

And many of your neighbors if given a vote, would vote not to have any black family living next to them

and now you can also explain what you meant by saying:

This is exactly what those evil condo residents wanted them to

How did you come to THESE conclusions?
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