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This is something that really has gone through my head as well. It is definitely a possibility. I could see the northern part of CP (in Ross Township) declining as more young families with kids are opting to live in Center Township. It would be primarily because of the fact that North CP = Merrillville Schools = not so good.
It would probably still be safe for a while. But the Center Township area of CP seems to have a long way to go before we see much decline. CP just needs to be really really careful not to make the same mistakes Merrillville did in allowing parts of town to be saturated with apartments (which means more transient, less rooted residents overall) especially at gateways into the town.
But I always do think to myself. Is CP just trying to slow down an "inevitable decline"?...It does cross my mind, but the area that CP covers is so big that I just think that unless the whole area becomes paved over with substandard development that all of the residential areas won't decline as fast (if at all as many did in Merrillville).
The advent of apartment complexes isn't the issue. A lot of apartments in Carmel yet do not have the issues of Merrillville. You will find a lot of younger people opting for the apartment lifestyle (no spouse and children) over home ownership. What kills an area isn't necessarily the poor. It's the mentality that some poor bring with them and not realizing or not wanting to adapt a change in mentality which honestly is vastly different in urban war zones than in suburbia where in one, you show no fear, mean mug, non-smiling versus it being okay to say hello to your neighbor and it being okay to strive for better without being frowned upon.
The advent of apartment complexes isn't the issue. A lot of apartments in Carmel yet do not have the issues of Merrillville. You will find a lot of younger people opting for the apartment lifestyle (no spouse and children) over home ownership. What kills an area isn't necessarily the poor. It's the mentality that some poor bring with them and not realizing or not wanting to adapt a change in mentality which honestly is vastly different in urban war zones than in suburbia where in one, you show no fear, mean mug, non-smiling versus it being okay to say hello to your neighbor and it being okay to strive for better without being frowned upon.
I agree with what you have stated. However, apartments in Carmel seem to attract way more college-educated young professionals than apartments in Northwest Indiana.
If there were many more employers in the area recruiting recent college grad, then we would probably see more of them in the many apartment communities in the area. However, many opt to live at home or in the city. Suburbs like Schaumburg that have office parks may attract recent college grads to the apartments there. However I just do not see the same in Merrillville. I don't think many other people do either. Apartments in the area tend to be more associated (fairly or unfairly) with undesirable tenants who are very transient and do not care about surroundings. While this in and of itself may not be true, it is clearly seen in many of the large apartment complexes in the region. It is seen in even the newer apartment complexes in Merrillville and many fear that it will only be repeated if another large complex is constructed in CP. I do not wish failure to any apartment complexes that may be pending approval; however, many people are waiting for apartments in CP to go drastically downhill so they can have more legitimate reasons (other than, "look at Merrillville) to block any future projects.
Well I had the pleasure of dining out at the new Cooper's Hawk restaurant location in Merrillville last night with a friend who lives in Merrillville. I must admit it was a great experience. It had a very nice diverse crowd there who were clearly enjoying the food and new ambiance. I think this says a lot about the area that Cooper's Hawk chose to open it's first and what probably will end up being it's only northwest indiana location in Merrillville. I am sure a lot of northwest indiana residents would have preferred if cooper's hawk would have chosen to locate in munster, saint john, or schererville. But, obviously Cooper's Hawk felt southlake was a much better location for it's new restaurant.
Here is another reason Merrillville is in decline...and FYI, even though the area is "technically" Hobart, geographically it is much closer to being Merrillville as the more densely populated areas of Hobart are about 15 minutes drive away.
Here is another reason Merrillville is in decline...and FYI, even though the area is "technically" Hobart, geographically it is much closer to being Merrillville as the more densely populated areas of Hobart are about 15 minutes drive away.
Yeah, anybody who goes to that mall, especially at night, should not be surprised by this one bit. This mall has been headed in that direction for a while now and I think this might be the last straw for a lot of shoppers, even though nobody got hurt. Not too long ago, I posted this on the "Shopping in Munster, IN" thread:
"I know a decent amount of people from the Munster, Highland, Tri-town area that are tired of Westfield Mall in Merrillville/Hobart. For some it can be 25 mins away, there's very few upscale shopping options there aside from Coach which recently opened, and frankly it's starting to turn ghetto. That drives people away, and I think Shops on Main can capitalize on that portion of the customer base from Westfield."
A poster then responded saying that calling it ghetto is misleading to make this mall sound unsafe. Well, I certainly wouldn't consider a mall where groups of teenage boys are carrying around guns to be the safest place in the world. This is Exhibit A of my claim. I really do think that Shops on Main can steal major market share from Westfield when that shopping center comes to fruition. I don't think I can say I'll never go to Westfield again, but I have told my wife (before this weekend's events) that I never want her there by herself and I'm sure there are many more just like me. The town of Merrillville and the mall were already getting an image problem, and this does nothing but confirm the suspicions of many shoppers.
Last edited by svillechris; 11-12-2012 at 07:26 AM..
Yeah, anybody who goes to that mall, especially at night, should not be surprised by this one bit. This mall has been headed in that direction for a while now and I think this might be the last straw for a lot of shoppers, even though nobody got hurt. Not too long ago, I posted this on the "Shopping in Munster, IN" thread:
"I know a decent amount of people from the Munster, Highland, Tri-town area that are tired of Westfield Mall in Merrillville/Hobart. For some it can be 25 mins away, there's very few upscale shopping options there aside from Coach which recently opened, and frankly it's starting to turn ghetto. That drives people away, and I think Shops on Main can capitalize on that portion of the customer base from Westfield."
A poster then responded saying that calling it ghetto is misleading to make this mall sound unsafe. Well, I certainly wouldn't consider a mall where groups of teenage boys are carrying around guns to be the safest place in the world. This is Exhibit A of my claim. I really do think that Shops on Main can steal major market share from Westfield when that shopping center comes to fruition. I don't think I can say I'll never go to Westfield again, but I have told my wife (before this weekend's events) that I never want her there by herself and I'm sure there are many more just like me. The town of Merrillville and the mall were already getting an image problem, and this does nothing but confirm the suspicions of many shoppers.
Before I posted my comment, I refered to your exact post and was thinking the same thing!
With Shops on Main, the developers just need to ensure that this development would really be a game changer for the area or else, I would let it pass. There are plenty of mid-tier and upper (although, not too upper) tier retailers and restauranteurs that have never set foot in nwi or Indiana at all that would definitely thrive here.
I'll admit, maybe I got a little caught up in some of the names I stated before. But c'mon, there is no reason we cannot at least have places like Banana Republic, Nordstrom Rack, Noodles, Von Maur etc. in this area.
These places seem pretty standard in other malls/shopping areas in the Chicago suburbs that are not even considered "high-end" for that area. Why not here ya know?
But I feel confident. They are clearing all the land and homes on the NWC of Main St. and US 41 (behind the Duke of Oil) and some type of development will be sure to call Highland home.
Well I had the pleasure of dining out at the new Cooper's Hawk restaurant location in Merrillville last night with a friend who lives in Merrillville. I must admit it was a great experience. It had a very nice diverse crowd there who were clearly enjoying the food and new ambiance. I think this says a lot about the area that Cooper's Hawk chose to open it's first and what probably will end up being it's only northwest indiana location in Merrillville. I am sure a lot of northwest indiana residents would have preferred if cooper's hawk would have chosen to locate in munster, saint john, or schererville. But, obviously Cooper's Hawk felt southlake was a much better location for it's new restaurant.
There are NO Cooper Hawk locations in the south suburbs east of I-57. The ONLY Cooper Hawk locations south of Chicago are in Merrillville, IN and Orland Park, IL. I've never been to the one in Merrilville but I'm willing to bet that both locations are pretty much the same.
I grew up in valparaiso, and now live in lincolnwood, illinois. There was talk of the great decline of Merrillville when we visited my grandparents in the early 1980s. That in a few years it would be the "new" Gary. It has been 40 years and Merrillville is still a diverse community with decent retail, and stable schools. My sister and her family live in Merrillville...they are educated and white. My niece attends Salk Elementary and has had a great experience. She is in the the slight minority, but it has never been an issue. She has never felt bullied or left out. If you check greatschools.net which crunches test scores to rate school on a scale of 1 to 10. Salk is a "9" with 97% of students testing at or above grade level in math and reading. This is better than most of the schools in Munster, and all the schools in Highland. Two other of the elementary schools are rated "7" and the test scores at most schools have have shown a steady incline. Statistics do not lie. If you gauge a community by the quality of the education than Merrillville is trending upwards. Salk was nominated for consideration for the blue ribbon award. This is not bad for a City whose demise has been predicted for over 40 years.
I grew up in valparaiso, and now live in lincolnwood, illinois. There was talk of the great decline of Merrillville when we visited my grandparents in the early 1980s. That in a few years it would be the "new" Gary. It has been 40 years and Merrillville is still a diverse community with decent retail, and stable schools. My sister and her family live in Merrillville...they are educated and white. My niece attends Salk Elementary and has had a great experience. She is in the the slight minority, but it has never been an issue. She has never felt bullied or left out. If you check greatschools.net which crunches test scores to rate school on a scale of 1 to 10. Salk is a "9" with 97% of students testing at or above grade level in math and reading. This is better than most of the schools in Munster, and all the schools in Highland. Two other of the elementary schools are rated "7" and the test scores at most schools have have shown a steady incline. Statistics do not lie. If you gauge a community by the quality of the education than Merrillville is trending upwards. Salk was nominated for consideration for the blue ribbon award. This is not bad for a City whose demise has been predicted for over 40 years.
Elementary schools are usually okay in most school districts. The major concerns lie mostly in middle/junior high and high schools. In this category, Merillville falls short.
When looking at the crime statistics, Merrillville falls short.
Consider the fact that schools are largely compared to themselves, and some schools that are already high ranking (which makes it more difficult to improve scores) may drop down in ratings if they do not perform as well (even by a percentage point or two) than in the previous school year.
Also consider that when most families choose school districts, they do not simply look at the academics. They look at the social aspects as well. And as someone who is very familiar with many school districts in the area, Merrillville is having the exact same issues that Gary schools are having. And because Merrillville has tried to hide this for as many years as it has had certain issues, they were ill prepared in addressing this issues. Again, this is largely related to middle and high schools.
Merrillville's access does make it a popular area for most retail and other offerings to locate. But long term, who knows.
I grew up in valparaiso, and now live in lincolnwood, illinois. There was talk of the great decline of Merrillville when we visited my grandparents in the early 1980s. That in a few years it would be the "new" Gary. It has been 40 years and Merrillville is still a diverse community with decent retail, and stable schools. My sister and her family live in Merrillville...they are educated and white. My niece attends Salk Elementary and has had a great experience. She is in the the slight minority, but it has never been an issue. She has never felt bullied or left out. If you check greatschools.net which crunches test scores to rate school on a scale of 1 to 10. Salk is a "9" with 97% of students testing at or above grade level in math and reading. This is better than most of the schools in Munster, and all the schools in Highland. Two other of the elementary schools are rated "7" and the test scores at most schools have have shown a steady incline. Statistics do not lie. If you gauge a community by the quality of the education than Merrillville is trending upwards. Salk was nominated for consideration for the blue ribbon award. This is not bad for a City whose demise has been predicted for over 40 years.
You're right about Salk. Very impressive ISTEP scores, but it's incredible how differently that school has performed compared to the rest of the district. I actually started a thread about that a while back after seeing those numbers. Overall, the school district is not very strong. I would agree with Northwest Indiana that ISTEP scores really can't be the only thing that is taken into consideration when evaluating a school district. For a better indication, I like to look at % of students that pass an AP exam and the End of Course Assessments. AP exam pass rates are self explanatory, but ECA results I think are a good indication of what has really been taught and learned by the student throughout the class. That's the real test in my mind, not just a state wide run generic test. When those factors are considered, Merrillville falls far short of the best districts around. Merrillville used to be a very solid school corporation in the 80s and early 90s but for the last several years, the corporation as a whole has been worse than the state average no matter how you slice it.
Also, crime has spiked. All you have to do is read the newspaper (and look at crime stats) to realize that over the past several years there has been quite a bit of violent crime in Merrillville, particularly the northern part. It's not Gary, it's not EC, and it's not like North Hammond, but I don't think Merrillville is headed in the right direction.
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Another reason...
