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Old 12-22-2015, 01:23 PM
 
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The trend seems in the US that once a town loses its "whiteness", then it usually becomes less desirable and loses its white demand. This has obviously happened in plenty of NWI towns/cities. Will Crown Point and Winfield become less desirable/lose white demand once the areas lose their "whiteness"?
It would seem pretty silly for another generation of folks continuing to move south and east.
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Old 12-22-2015, 02:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valpofan11 View Post
It would seem pretty silly for another generation of folks continuing to move south and east.
Why is it silly to try to escape before a town turns to blight?
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Old 12-22-2015, 08:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valpofan11 View Post
The trend seems in the US that once a town loses its "whiteness", then it usually becomes less desirable and loses its white demand. This has obviously happened in plenty of NWI towns/cities. Will Crown Point and Winfield become less desirable/lose white demand once the areas lose their "whiteness"?
It would seem pretty silly for another generation of folks continuing to move south and east.
My gut tells me that history tends to repeat itself...it happened in Gary and happened in Merrillville so why not Crown Point/Winfield? Well, the one major thing that sets CP from Merrillville is that CP has a lot more money than Merrillville ever had to begin with. This in and of itself will help maintain population stability out there. Communities where residents have more money tend to stand their ground against blight. The whole and ONLY idea of Merrillville was to accommodate white flight from Gary in the late 60s after Hatcher was elected. Point, blank, period. While some of the housing stock "pre-Hatcher" was solid nice brick ranches and the like, much of the development "post-Hatcher" was thrown together quickly to accommodate the booming population from the flighters.

As soon as demographics changes began to take place in Merrillville, the same pattern began to repeat itself in CP and Winfield with the exception that new residents were also coming from some Illinois burbs and more so now, other out of state destinations and out of country (many eastern europeans especially Macedonians). While there is still flight from Merrillville, we are now seeing some flight (but mostly older Whites dying off and being mostly replaced by Blacks) from northern CP in Ross Township. Some people do not count this area as CP but it factors into the makeup CP and 46307 demographics. To be honest, while I do like Crown Point (especially the downtown area) and the CPCSC, my main concern would be the future. While there are quite a few residents who have been rooted in CP for many many generations even before any meaningful growth from White Flight, a substantial amount of the population growth in CP has been from White Flight. Yes, this could be said for all suburban areas in NWI, but the main difference is that the growth from flight had been more pronounced in Merrillville and Crown Point than anywhere else in the region. And the decline from flight in Merrillville more pronounced than any suburban area in the region. I would be concerned with investing in a neighborhood where many of the residents hailed from the same former town...would they flee again? How would that impact my investment? Those are the questions I would need to answer. If people move to CP with the idea that they believe it will "stay White", then to me, this is a wrong move. People thought the same about Merrillville back in 1980. Didn't take but 10 years for major demographic shifts to happen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by InchingWest View Post
Why is it silly to try to escape before a town turns to blight?
Because it is much better to address areas that may potentially become blighted (like Munster, Highland, an Tri-town have done) than to wait for an area to become blighted and then try to play catch-up after flight and disinvestment take place (like in Merrillville).
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Old 12-22-2015, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Sweet Home Chicago!
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IMO, a few things need to be in place for white flight to take off.

1. The area must border or be close to an already blighted area.

2. The area must have an ample supply of low cost housing stock.

3. School quality is on a downward trend.

So to answer your question. Yes, but since CP/Winfield has a fair amount of higher-end homes, it will not go completely down the tubes.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamadiddle View Post
IMO, a few things need to be in place for white flight to take off.

1. The area must border or be close to an already blighted area.

The area of Merrillville that CP borders (and north CP itself) is not blighted, but it is definitely looking tired.

2. The area must have an ample supply of low cost housing stock.

CP overall (within the CP school district) is not low cost but definitely less expensive than other comparable areas which makes it attractive. However, the homes in the Merrillville school district are noticeably less expensive which impacts and will impact the image of CP.

3. School quality is on a downward trend.

School quality is doing very well in CP.

So to answer your question. Yes, but since CP/Winfield has a fair amount of higher-end homes, it will not go completely down the tubes.

Agreed.
I believe the criteria you listed is spot on. On your first point though, I would add "or an area with a negative reputation".
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Old 12-23-2015, 08:11 AM
 
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If Crown Point does start to go the way of Merrillville, do you see Valpo growing as a result of the people that are leaving?
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:24 AM
 
253 posts, read 333,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
My gut tells me that history tends to repeat itself...it happened in Gary and happened in Merrillville so why not Crown Point/Winfield? Well, the one major thing that sets CP from Merrillville is that CP has a lot more money than Merrillville ever had to begin with. This in and of itself will help maintain population stability out there. Communities where residents have more money tend to stand their ground against blight. The whole and ONLY idea of Merrillville was to accommodate white flight from Gary in the late 60s after Hatcher was elected. Point, blank, period. While some of the housing stock "pre-Hatcher" was solid nice brick ranches and the like, much of the development "post-Hatcher" was thrown together quickly to accommodate the booming population from the flighters.

As soon as demographics changes began to take place in Merrillville, the same pattern began to repeat itself in CP and Winfield with the exception that new residents were also coming from some Illinois burbs and more so now, other out of state destinations and out of country (many eastern europeans especially Macedonians). While there is still flight from Merrillville, we are now seeing some flight (but mostly older Whites dying off and being mostly replaced by Blacks) from northern CP in Ross Township. Some people do not count this area as CP but it factors into the makeup CP and 46307 demographics. To be honest, while I do like Crown Point (especially the downtown area) and the CPCSC, my main concern would be the future. While there are quite a few residents who have been rooted in CP for many many generations even before any meaningful growth from White Flight, a substantial amount of the population growth in CP has been from White Flight. Yes, this could be said for all suburban areas in NWI, but the main difference is that the growth from flight had been more pronounced in Merrillville and Crown Point than anywhere else in the region. And the decline from flight in Merrillville more pronounced than any suburban area in the region. I would be concerned with investing in a neighborhood where many of the residents hailed from the same former town...would they flee again? How would that impact my investment? Those are the questions I would need to answer. If people move to CP with the idea that they believe it will "stay White", then to me, this is a wrong move. People thought the same about Merrillville back in 1980. Didn't take but 10 years for major demographic shifts to happen.
To me, Merrillville isn't in a full-force decline, it's more of in a funk (best type of music BTW) and gaining poorer residents. When we hit the point where the majority of middle class residents of all racial/ethnic groups leave town and when a few shootings a week occur, then the town is down the tubes.(There's only been 1 homicide in town this year) Glen Park was pretty ok until the middle class residents left in the late 80s/90s, coinciding with greater amounts of violence. Merrillville still has a ways to go before it hits that level, and I still love the town's older housing stock. If/when it hits that level, then you'll see tons of black flight to Crown Point/Winfield, which might cause flight from CP to western Cedar Lake, Lowell, Hebron, Porter Township, and elsewhere.

Merrillville needs to become a city so that they can have a mayor with one vision for how to redevelop the core northern part of town along Broadway and attract middle-class to upper middle-class residents of all races/ethnicities. I wish Merrillville would remain diverse with blacks, whites, and Hispanics, but the 2nd group is either left or continuing to die off. Sad how integration is a rarity in the US.

In regards to north CP, it's about 61% white, 24% black, and 11% Hispanic according to http://statisticalatlas.com/tract/In...-and-Ethnicity
It'll be interesting to see the demographics of this tract when the 2020 census rolls around.

Last edited by valpofan11; 12-23-2015 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 12-23-2015, 09:31 AM
 
253 posts, read 333,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaseybaker1 View Post
If Crown Point does start to go the way of Merrillville, do you see Valpo growing as a result of the people that are leaving?
No, I live in Valpo and Valpo won't grow cause of CP flight. It has and is growing due to a good amount of whites moving from Portage Township (Portage/South Haven) to Valpo, and this isn't exactly all out white flight, but more so moving up the class ladder or the allure of better PERCEIVED schools. Valpo (and Chesterton & Wheeler/Union Township to an extent) will grow more due to flight from Portage Township than from Lake County, and with Portage becoming more diverse and Valpo having a large rental housing stock, you'll see a black population increase in Valpo soon after Crown Point's grows.

Lowell, west side of Cedar Lake (Hanover Schools), Hebron, Porter Township, and points in between would likely be places that would grow as a result of CP flight.
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Old 12-25-2015, 04:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valpofan11 View Post
No, I live in Valpo and Valpo won't grow cause of CP flight. It has and is growing due to a good amount of whites moving from Portage Township (Portage/South Haven) to Valpo, and this isn't exactly all out white flight, but more so moving up the class ladder or the allure of better PERCEIVED schools. Valpo (and Chesterton & Wheeler/Union Township to an extent) will grow more due to flight from Portage Township than from Lake County, and with Portage becoming more diverse and Valpo having a large rental housing stock, you'll see a black population increase in Valpo soon after Crown Point's grows.

Lowell, west side of Cedar Lake (Hanover Schools), Hebron, Porter Township, and points in between would likely be places that would grow as a result of CP flight.
I agree. While Valpo did receive some flight from Merrillville and Gary, I do not think Valpo (within city limits) would see any measurable growth from any type of CP/Winfield flight. Many people who would flee CP/Winfield would probably not want to move to a city like Valpo that itself, albeit at a slower pace, is known to be getting more diverse.

I could see the area in between US 231 to Rt. 2 & I-65 (with Crown Point/Lowell/Hebron address but in Lake County - with Tri-Creek schools) possibly growing due to flight. All it would take is a large subdivision being built there. the opposition would likely be fierce. Many CP residents have long complained about the growth in CP being detrimental to the success of downtown CP however the downtown seems to be thriving and getting better. Lowell's downtown is very...not thriving...and has been struggling for many years and I think more development outside of the core would cause much more legitimate concerns. Although off the table for now, the Illiana Tollway (I refuse to call it expressway) would have accelerated the growth of the area.
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