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Old 07-22-2016, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
2,686 posts, read 7,552,072 times
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In honor of Northwest Indiana:

What do people think? Will it follow the path of Munster or Merrillville?

Will it remain desirable or it will it see declines?
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Sweet Home Chicago!
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Yes! lol

CP is a bit more complex since it has such a mix of housing stock. However, seeing all the low end homes going up the last time I was there tells me that CP will be more similar to Merrillville than Munster in the future. IMO, when you have low cost housing w/ low taxes bordering or near an area of existing blight, it's just a matter of time before the cancer sets in and white flight occurs... Sad, but true. One only has to look at the South Side and South suburbs of Chicago to see how this movie ends.
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Old 07-22-2016, 10:58 AM
 
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As someone who lives in CP, I don't think this will happen any time soon. While it does have a pretty well balanced mix of housing (which is a good thing), there is and probably will still be a premium to buying a house in CP in comparison to other towns in Lake Co.. This can be credited to the school system and the downtown atmosphere that people enjoy. If people leave where are they going to go: Lowell or back north? This will come to a point where it is not feasible to keep going south or east. Yes you can point to it bordering Merrillville however that's the nicest part of Merrillville that it borders and there's a pretty definitive stretch between the two towns of vacant land. Also some of the lower end housing and a vacant business are being torn down and replaced with new townhomes and another brewery/restaurant owned by Crown Brewing(see Indiana Ave and North St).


Again I live here and may be viewed as a homer, but this is not something that will likely happen anytime soon.
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Old 07-22-2016, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Sweet Home Chicago!
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Would be interesting to see a more current version of this >

Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com
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Old 07-22-2016, 02:24 PM
 
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Decline in CP is most likely related to fear regarding the growth in the Black population. Most folks in CP were originally from Merrillville whom were originally from Gary. History tends to repeat itself. I don't see Crown Point going completely downhill. It has a diverse housing stock which includes average homes that you find in Merrillville as well as mansions that you find in Munster and Tri-town. It probably has the most diverse housing stock of any municipality in Lake County especially with newer housing as wel. You can get cheaper new housing or more expensive newer housing in CP whereas in Munster, newer housing will always be on the expensive side. The only towns where CP has a premium on would be places like Highland, Griffith, Merrillville, Hobart, and Cedar Lake (on the Hanover side). However, there will definitely be areas like north CP (with the exception of White Hawk) that will definitely not be desirable mostly due to being in the Merrillville school district. However, right now, north CP is a safe area; however, some residents have feared the changing demographics and have left (although most of the new Black residents have the same income and education as the White residents they have replaced). Like I said in another post, there is White Flight going on in North CP and former residents there seem to have moved either to CP in Center township, Winfield, Lowell, and Valpo.

People are automatically align an increase in Black population with decreased desirability in that area. However, in West Lake County suburbs, towns have become more desirable even with an increase in the Black population. It all comes down to attitudes towards changes. If I were a CP resident, I would not want more flighters moving in whom would just be likely to run again. Besides the distance to commute to Chicago, this would be another concern of mine in buying a home there. Schools are great, city is very safe, and more amenities seem to be on the way. Lots of activities for kids as well. I may consider getting rental property there as I believe that would be a great investment in CP.

As far as teardowns, The only notable teardowns in CP were the Sears homes on Indiana Ave but nothing major (although those townhomes look very nice!). Aside from this, there are some here and there which are usually done when an already dilapidated structure is just taken down, but there isn't that much blight in the city right now.

And while one would think there is nowhere else to run, there is still places like Demotte, Boone Grove, Hebron, and Lowell (although some folks may wait until children finish school or they retire before fleeing).
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Old 07-23-2016, 08:16 AM
 
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As north CP eventually becomes majority black/non-white, this will eventually spill over south of 101st to the CP school district. I agree with Northwest Indiana on most of his points. Crown Point will remain desirable until people perceive it to not be anymore, or crime increases enough to make it undesirable, which I think will not happen. I hate when I hear the term "good schools". Good schools are perception based in most cases, as well as being created because the kids that live there are well off and will be pushed to learn by their parents. A wealthier district is obviously going to be higher performing, and a poorer one will usually be lower performing. Great school districts have teachers are raising their students to new heights and exceeding expectations.

CP will become more and more diverse. It will stay desirable until the ones with money deem it to not be desirable anymore.
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Old 07-23-2016, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Humboldt Park, Chicago
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Default Crown Point white flight

If it is happening in northern part of Crown Point only matter of time before entire town is impacted.

Cheap housing stock is great for affordability but also allows for white flight.

Lack of affordability has kept River Forest and much of Oak Park nice while surrounding suburbs crumbled.
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Old 07-23-2016, 01:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humboldt1 View Post
If it is happening in northern part of Crown Point only matter of time before entire town is impacted.

Cheap housing stock is great for affordability but also allows for white flight.

Lack of affordability has kept River Forest and much of Oak Park nice while surrounding suburbs crumbled.
To be more specific, when we refer to the area "north CP" experiencing the flight, it is the area south of 93rd Ave, east of N Main St, west of Broadway and north of 101st Ave. This area was developed from the 60s through the early 2000s and the homes are mostly very modest homes. There are some executive style homes but they command as much of a price as some of the more modest homes just south of 101st that are not even as large.

In north CP as well in the White Hawk CC subdivision, the area of that subdivision in Ross Township (Merrillville schools) actually has the nicest homes in the subdivision but the homes in the Center Township (CP schools) section where the homes are still very nice but not as uniformly large and ornate cost the same or more. Land in the Center Twp part costs over 50% more than in the Ross Twp part of the development.

Also, the part of Crown Point that is in St. John Township (just east of Burr St and south of 30) does not constitute north CP because it is mostly unincorporated and is really part of Schererville. Part of that area has actually been annexed by Schererville but the residents were allowed to keep CP mailing addresses. Just in case you were wondering what the boundaries of north CP were.

The most upscale and newer subdivisions in CP are in the Center Twp area (and in Winfield Twp and in Winfield itself) and are pretty evenly distributed around the city. However, there are also the cheaper "vinyl village" type neighborhoods in CP and Winfield. One of the largest ones is The Regency which is just south of CPHS. There are some more semi-custom homes mixed in there from builders such as Cook but most of the homes are built by Providence. The quality is nothing to write home about at all. The value in this subdivision may be okay only due to proximity to the high school, a golf course, and only a few minute drive to the downtown. However some of the other vinyl village-type developments are much further out into Winfield and long-term value would have me concerned. While I know this may not fly as it had been discussed over a decade ago (even two decades ago), if Winfield were to get its own middle school and high school, I think it would become more desirable. Right now, Elementary students are split between two schools: Winfield Elementary School which is K-2 and is in the cornfields well outside of Winfield AND CP, Jerry Ross Elementary School which is 3-5 and is right in Winfield near the core and outside of LOFS. However, for middle school, the area is zoned to Colonel Wheeler Middle School which during rush hour traffic is easily a 20-30 min drive into CP and then the high school can be 30-40 mins with traffic, which is insane to me considering how developed Winfield is getting.

Interesting note: Racial/Ethnic Diversity in Winfield is actually increasing faster than in CP south of 101st and Winfield is much further east (heading towards Valpo) which was supposed to be the "safe route" as far as white flight goes. The minority residents that move into these areas are mostly Black middle and upper middle class, but there are still folks out there that have no desire to live in an integrated neighborhood. Like I said in a previous post -- the attitudes are what would drive flight to keep occurring before any increase in crime or blight takes place.
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Old 07-23-2016, 06:20 PM
 
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Another good point that has already been brought up in previous forum posts by Northwest Indiana and others is the Crown Point residents' resistance to new commercial developments. Lauth, Harlem Irving, Thompson Thrift, VMA Holdings, & Holladay Properties are the developers that have proposed commercial developments at I-65 & US 231, and none were ever developed in part due to the sheer opposition by CP residents. They've used code words, such as "undesirables", "increased traffic & crime", etc to show their opposition, traffic might be justifiable though. When Hawk Development came out with their huge development plans for the Galleria at 109th & Delaware, the CP Community FB page blew up with opposition to this, people saying they don't want to become "another Merrillville". On one hand, I can see they don't want to have the same stores, but they also said that hotels "would bring in crime".

My point being is, if CP residents want to continue opposing commercial developments in hope that "more upscale" retailers come to the city, which will probably never come to CP, then CP won't gain desirability IMHO. Downtown is nice, but CP is becoming more and more of a suburban residential sprawl town. And once you sprawl, you're at risk of being "sprawled over" in the sprawl cycle. Especially when these new homes in CP aren't so new anymore. Happened to Merrillville. They got sprawled over.
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Old 07-24-2016, 08:23 AM
 
809 posts, read 2,190,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valpofan11 View Post

My point being is, if CP residents want to continue opposing commercial developments in hope that "more upscale" retailers come to the city, which will probably never come to CP, then CP won't gain desirability IMHO. Downtown is nice, but CP is becoming more and more of a suburban residential sprawl town. And once you sprawl, you're at risk of being "sprawled over" in the sprawl cycle. Especially when these new homes in CP aren't so new anymore. Happened to Merrillville. They got sprawled over.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. CP won't/can't gain in desirability if the town doesn't add commercial development? Based on what? Many people like the idea of a "bedroom community" to the more commercially focused town of Merrillville.

Also, what do you mean Merrillville got sprawled over?
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