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Old 07-31-2011, 08:50 PM
 
811 posts, read 2,336,414 times
Reputation: 644

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake County IN View Post
See, that's where you're wrong.

I know Miller like the back of my hand, there's plenty of abandoned buildings in Miller. I see em everyday.

The abandoned building situation is the way it is because the people who own those buildings REFUSE TO SELL the buildings.

There have been people from all over the world who have tried to come to Gary and revitalize it and buy the buildings and renovate downtown. The people who own them now REFUSE to let those people do it.

....
Don't incorrectly portray this. Everyone has a price. So, either A) the investors from "around the world" were trying to lowball the property owners knowing that they'd likely take anything to dump it or B) The property owners had an unrealistic offer price. Don't make it seem as though these big-money firms were bidding top dollar to renovate the town, it's not true. Everyone has a price. Supply and demand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake County IN View Post

Um, you kind of do have to have jobs to have a functioning society.

How do you think schools and public services are funded?

The tax base.
False, public schools' general funds have been funded through the state since 2008. They are no longer funded through property tax. In fact, Gary schools actually receive significantly more money from the state than school districts like Munster, Lake Central, or Crown Point because such a high free-lunch percentage, which is a large component to the school funding equation. Obviously, this increased and arguably adequate funding for Gary schools has not helped anything and has been squandered, as evidenced by the recent news that Roosevelt may be taken over by the state due to its extremely poor performance and that Gary schools again ranked next to dead last in the state in ISTEP scores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake County IN View Post
Gary has no tax base except U.S. Steel, which employs mostly people from Munster, St. John, Merrillville, Schererville, and Illinois.

Most of the people who make money in Gary . . . . don't live in Gary.

That's the problem.
You've completely changed your argument now? Your previous argument was that the problem was that there was no significant business in Gary, and now you're saying that it's that the people who make money in Gary don't live there. I agree with the latter, but do you blame those people who want to send their children to good schools and therefore do not want to live in Gary?

Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter View Post
In the end, you never pointed out where I was wrong, what you state as fact is easily verifiable via the county. Bottom line, it's a city that feels defeated. There is a huge influx of people who won't do anything to uplift their neighbor. Like I said, it doesn't take a lot to pick up the trash and mow the lawn, but what you have is a place where the people literally use it as a landfill without regard to how it affects the city or their fellow citizens. With all of the land east of the mill throughout miller into MB that is part of Indiana Dunes, the tourism dollars for the city would be great BUT you have those who love Gary's reputation and will do anything to make sure it stays that way. Until you kill that mentality, there isn't anything that can be done. Until the parents instill discipline and enforce strong work ethic and education, nothing can be done.
Great post. This basically sums it up. If there aren't enough people living in Gary that want a significant change to their city, it will not happen. Frankly, it seems like there is more interest outside of Gary to change Gary for the better than there is interest by its own residents. Pathetic.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:23 AM
 
2,156 posts, read 5,488,415 times
Reputation: 1572
This is what I think the main issue is. I think that many residents of Gary believe that residents with money (who live in Munster, Schererville, Dyer, St. John, etc.) are the only ones that can bring jobs to Gary....But believe it or not, there are people who still live in Gary who have enough money to bring jobs to Gary...who are these people? They are the clergymen, councilmembers, school administrators that STEAL Gary citizens monies. Not every job has to be created by a Fortune 500 company for it to be a good job. There are many entrepreneurs in Gary that could start businesses that pay well. But many do not want to risk their money in Gary when a much larger company (like Marshalll's that just opened in the Village) can afford the risk.
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Old 08-01-2011, 10:02 AM
 
3,004 posts, read 5,147,548 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
This is what I think the main issue is. I think that many residents of Gary believe that residents with money (who live in Munster, Schererville, Dyer, St. John, etc.) are the only ones that can bring jobs to Gary....But believe it or not, there are people who still live in Gary who have enough money to bring jobs to Gary...who are these people? They are the clergymen, councilmembers, school administrators that STEAL Gary citizens monies. Not every job has to be created by a Fortune 500 company for it to be a good job. There are many entrepreneurs in Gary that could start businesses that pay well. But many do not want to risk their money in Gary when a much larger company (like Marshalll's that just opened in the Village) can afford the risk.
No, don't think that's it in the least because no one really see that with the people in those communities. Yes some of them have money but earned it by working for someone else so it defeats the purpose. People want to see viable corporations and not necessarily fortune 5's but ones that create multiple jobs that just isn't minimum wage or barely above it.
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Old 08-01-2011, 01:12 PM
 
2,156 posts, read 5,488,415 times
Reputation: 1572
Quote:
Originally Posted by msamhunter View Post
No, don't think that's it in the least because no one really see that with the people in those communities. Yes some of them have money but earned it by working for someone else so it defeats the purpose. People want to see viable corporations and not necessarily fortune 5's but ones that create multiple jobs that just isn't minimum wage or barely above it.
Who says that you can't use the money you earned (from someone else) to start up your own business?
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:56 PM
 
196 posts, read 658,296 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by svillechris View Post
Don't incorrectly portray this. Everyone has a price. So, either A) the investors from "around the world" were trying to lowball the property owners knowing that they'd likely take anything to dump it or B) The property owners had an unrealistic offer price. Don't make it seem as though these big-money firms were bidding top dollar to renovate the town, it's not true. Everyone has a price. Supply and demand.


False, public schools' general funds have been funded through the state since 2008. They are no longer funded through property tax. In fact, Gary schools actually receive significantly more money from the state than school districts like Munster, Lake Central, or Crown Point because such a high free-lunch percentage, which is a large component to the school funding equation. Obviously, this increased and arguably adequate funding for Gary schools has not helped anything and has been squandered, as evidenced by the recent news that Roosevelt may be taken over by the state due to its extremely poor performance and that Gary schools again ranked next to dead last in the state in ISTEP scores.



You've completely changed your argument now? Your previous argument was that the problem was that there was no significant business in Gary, and now you're saying that it's that the people who make money in Gary don't live there. I agree with the latter, but do you blame those people who want to send their children to good schools and therefore do not want to live in Gary?



Great post. This basically sums it up. If there aren't enough people living in Gary that want a significant change to their city, it will not happen. Frankly, it seems like there is more interest outside of Gary to change Gary for the better than there is interest by its own residents. Pathetic.
Since 2008?

Really?

You're gonna undo 50 years of urban decay and sprawl in less than 3 years?

Have you seen the schools?

You think that a city that has been brought to it's knees over the past 40 years is just gonna magically be back on it's feet in 3 years?

Really?

Telling me what's happened since 2008 doesn't really do anything for us considering everybody else got out of the gate faster and have already taken everything from Gary.

Also, the property owners aren't doing anything WITH the land, why not let somebody who wants to come in and do something with it do something constructive with it, instead of letting it sit and be abandoned for 20, 30 years while it brings down the property value of an entire community.

Supply and demand my ass. This is people's lives here. Waiting for Donald Trump to give you a million dollars for an abandoned building is idiotic.

And NO I haven't changed the argument.

U.S. Steel is by far the major employer in Gary. Has that ever been in dispute?

And that place in general employs people from outside of the community, while laying off people who have been working there from here for 20 or 30 years.

So, it's U.S. Steel or bust.

I don't see how that's "changing the argument". Did I ever deny that U.S. Steel was in Gary? No, just that it doesn't supply the employment to the community, who's lakefront it's bogarded for the past 100 years.

It basically sucks the oxygen out of the entire city.

The only thing it had going for it was that it at least kept the community employed.

Now, it doesn't like it used to, so that's why I criticized it.

We're all drinking polluted water, because of who?

We have some of the worst air quality in America because of who?

Now we don't have the jobs that somewhat justified the health risks of it being here.

I believe I'm completely justified in my criticisms




Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest Indiana View Post
This is what I think the main issue is. I think that many residents of Gary believe that residents with money (who live in Munster, Schererville, Dyer, St. John, etc.) are the only ones that can bring jobs to Gary....But believe it or not, there are people who still live in Gary who have enough money to bring jobs to Gary...who are these people? They are the clergymen, councilmembers, school administrators that STEAL Gary citizens monies. Not every job has to be created by a Fortune 500 company for it to be a good job. There are many entrepreneurs in Gary that could start businesses that pay well. But many do not want to risk their money in Gary when a much larger company (like Marshalll's that just opened in the Village) can afford the risk.
Well, then why have there been plenty of business people who have tried to bring money and jobs to Gary, who have been purposely kept out by the powers that be?

I've personally talked to from Chicago and other places and all they talk about is the resources and land that Gary has and how they'd like to come here, but have been purposely kept out.

They don't want people to invest in this city.

That would take it out of the hands of the people who already own all of it and intend on monopolizing Lake Michigan and the Dunes National Park and forcing out the remaining citizens who own land here.

I do agree that our city government is corrupt, but let me ask you this.

Who funds them?

Who allows them to keep stealing without throwing most of them in jail?

Who pays them to look the other way when people are getting sick from the polluted air, water, and are being beaten by the police?

Gary has been run by the business "mafia" since the days of Al Capone and continues to.
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Old 08-02-2011, 05:54 PM
 
3,004 posts, read 5,147,548 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake County IN View Post
Since 2008?

Really?

You're gonna undo 50 years of urban decay and sprawl in less than 3 years?

Have you seen the schools?

You think that a city that has been brought to it's knees over the past 40 years is just gonna magically be back on it's feet in 3 years?

Really?

Telling me what's happened since 2008 doesn't really do anything for us considering everybody else got out of the gate faster and have already taken everything from Gary.

Also, the property owners aren't doing anything WITH the land, why not let somebody who wants to come in and do something with it do something constructive with it, instead of letting it sit and be abandoned for 20, 30 years while it brings down the property value of an entire community.

Supply and demand my ass. This is people's lives here. Waiting for Donald Trump to give you a million dollars for an abandoned building is idiotic.

And NO I haven't changed the argument.

U.S. Steel is by far the major employer in Gary. Has that ever been in dispute?

And that place in general employs people from outside of the community, while laying off people who have been working there from here for 20 or 30 years.

So, it's U.S. Steel or bust.

I don't see how that's "changing the argument". Did I ever deny that U.S. Steel was in Gary? No, just that it doesn't supply the employment to the community, who's lakefront it's bogarded for the past 100 years.

It basically sucks the oxygen out of the entire city.

The only thing it had going for it was that it at least kept the community employed.

Now, it doesn't like it used to, so that's why I criticized it.

We're all drinking polluted water, because of who?

We have some of the worst air quality in America because of who?

Now we don't have the jobs that somewhat justified the health risks of it being here.

I believe I'm completely justified in my criticisms

Well, then why have there been plenty of business people who have tried to bring money and jobs to Gary, who have been purposely kept out by the powers that be?

I've personally talked to from Chicago and other places and all they talk about is the resources and land that Gary has and how they'd like to come here, but have been purposely kept out.

They don't want people to invest in this city.

That would take it out of the hands of the people who already own all of it and intend on monopolizing Lake Michigan and the Dunes National Park and forcing out the remaining citizens who own land here.

I do agree that our city government is corrupt, but let me ask you this.

Who funds them?

Who allows them to keep stealing without throwing most of them in jail?

Who pays them to look the other way when people are getting sick from the polluted air, water, and are being beaten by the police?

Gary has been run by the business "mafia" since the days of Al Capone and continues to.
Well, the whole 3 year thing, I think you are misconstruing. He was just explaining school funding and when it changed, nothing more nothing less.

As far as the rest of your post, I will say, yes USS has strangled the city, from its inception by not allowing any type of diversification of business. That was done intentionally but they as well as the city was under the impression that the mill would always be a global powerhouse. Obviously it isn't and obviously technology created less manpower for the mill. Going from employing 30000 to under 5000 in a few short years would dismantle anyone's economy. The city kept listening to USS and to some extent still listens to them instead of just growing a back bone and doing what's needed for the citizens.

As far as all of those people you talk to. I can't say that you are lying, but I think it is almost a general consensus that something is not adding up in your words. For the most part the county owns most of the land downtown of the abandoned buildings and more often then not will relinquish the property as long as back taxes are paid, simple government functions. Point being paying back taxes on a building doesn't compare to the cost of renovating and/or demolishing and building a new. I'm sorry but your bit about you talking to people who "wanted to do something has a lot of holes in it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:22 PM
 
4 posts, read 5,500 times
Reputation: 10
Can anyone tell me if Mr Lucky's is still standing in Gary Indiana? Or has it been torn down? Thanks.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:15 PM
 
9,908 posts, read 9,579,736 times
Reputation: 10108
If i were thinking of Gary, I'd go the other way (east) and live in Portage or Chesterton. The South Shore Line runs thru there, so why not those?
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:09 AM
 
4 posts, read 5,500 times
Reputation: 10
Thanks but that didnt really answer my question. Is Mr. Lucky's still standing in Gary or has it been torn down?
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Whiteville Tennessee
8,262 posts, read 18,478,817 times
Reputation: 10150
Quote:
Originally Posted by sincerity View Post
Thanks but that didnt really answer my question. Is Mr. Lucky's still standing in Gary or has it been torn down?
What was Mr. Luckys? A bar? A diner?
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