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Depends on how you define a nice town. If you talk about Munster, Dyer, and Schererville, these were never that dependent, and were able to make the transition to bedroom communities for Chicago- their ascendancy began after the mills employment started to decline. Valpo has an engine in the university.
But, Gary mortgaged its future on the steel industry, gave it all kinds of tax breaks, and did not hold it accountable. The people who worked in the steel industry did not value education much- both the poor whites and the poor blacks that moved up during the great migration of the 1920's. The town did not diversify its industrial base from steel - both upstream and downstream industries depended on it.
I realize that a lot of people look at Gary, and see the people there as a problem, but it might be more apropos to look at them as just the last remnant of an untenable situation. I see Gary, Lake Station, and Hobart as all in the same, dysfunctional boat. Gary might have more hulking wrecks of past eras visible, but all three towns residents face a pretty bleak future.
Good points, and I don't really disagree, but I would ask you the following in response to your statement: If Munster, Dyer, Schererville were all able to "transition to bedroom communities for Chicago", what has stopped Gary from doing so? Chesterton is a fabulous town and isn't linked up to a Chicago to a great extent, doesn't have a university or hospital, and is further from Illinois than Gary.
Also, saying that the lack of jobs/health of steel industry is the reason why Gary is in the state it's currently in, this then assumes that people generally live in the city they work in. Why then are Dyer, Schererville, St. John all nice thriving cities? We all know that there aren't many jobs in either of those 3 towns.
Bottom line in my opinion is that the progress and quality of a city comes down to the people who live in it. If the people who live in it destroy it, property values decrease, and the downward spiral begins, which has happened to Gary.
Good points, and I don't really disagree, but I would ask you the following in response to your statement: If Munster, Dyer, Schererville were all able to "transition to bedroom communities for Chicago", what has stopped Gary from doing so? Chesterton is a fabulous town and isn't linked up to a Chicago to a great extent, doesn't have a university or hospital, and is further from Illinois than Gary.
Also, saying that the lack of jobs/health of steel industry is the reason why Gary is in the state it's currently in, this then assumes that people generally live in the city they work in. Why then are Dyer, Schererville, St. John all nice thriving cities? We all know that there aren't many jobs in either of those 3 towns.
Bottom line in my opinion is that the progress and quality of a city comes down to the people who live in it. If the people who live in it destroy it, property values decrease, and the downward spiral begins, which has happened to Gary.
To answer your question, I think the reason is because out of Gary's once 100,000+ population, I would say less than 10% were college educated. Most citizens were skilled laborers. Once the industry started to suffer, so did they. They had no other jobs to do. Many of them moved south or, if possible, went to schools to gain degrees (or their kids did) and then they got out of Gary. Towns like Munster had a VERY small population of blue collar workers, but then when the growth really started to boom (after Gary's "prime"), most of the boom was white-collar professionals who moved from the Chicago area looking for nice yet more affordable homes. Massive flight took place from Gary. In the beginning it was more of a "job" flight...in the more recent years (from the 60-70s and up) it was also white flight. This is all just my educated opinion.
Also, IMHO, I feel that in order for Gary to make any kind of comeback, it should probably be subdivided into separate Villages that encompass the City of Gary...it will be MUCH more manageable. The process could start with Miller seceding from the city all together.
There's nothing here. That's why they're not flocking here.
People flocked to L.A., even at the height of the Bloods/Crips gang wars of the 1980s and 1990s, 800 murders a year, why?
Because L.A. has beaches, sun and fun, Hollywood, a music industry, a movie industry, and plenty of industries, and fun activities, plus the Lakers, Clippers, UCLA, USC, The Dodgers, and the biggest stars on earth.
Even when New York was having 2000 murders a year, people flocked there, why?
Broadway, The Yankees, the romanticism of New York City.
Please,
Brazil is one of the most dangerous countries in the world and Rio is one of the most dangerous cities, yet they just got the Olympics and people flock there.
If there is something to do somewhere, people will ALWAYS flock there, whether there's crime or drugs or whatever.
All those LA murders were spread out over a HUGE land area.People in northern LA County are not affected by what happens in Compton or the Valley. Its completely different worlds. Gary is small. When crime happens in Gary it is more likely to affect more people. Gary today may not be as bad as it was 10 years ago. But if a place has shi**y government, shi**y schools and a shi**y reputation, then its probably a shi**y place to visit. I dont know about you but I know when I step in a pile of sh*t and I dont like doing it!
To answer your question, I think the reason is because out of Gary's once 100,000+ population, I would say less than 10% were college educated. Most citizens were skilled laborers. Once the industry started to suffer, so did they. They had no other jobs to do. Many of them moved south or, if possible, went to schools to gain degrees (or their kids did) and then they got out of Gary. Towns like Munster had a VERY small population of blue collar workers, but then when the growth really started to boom (after Gary's "prime"), most of the boom was white-collar professionals who moved from the Chicago area looking for nice yet more affordable homes. Massive flight took place from Gary. In the beginning it was more of a "job" flight...in the more recent years (from the 60-70s and up) it was also white flight. This is all just my educated opinion.
Also, IMHO, I feel that in order for Gary to make any kind of comeback, it should probably be subdivided into separate Villages that encompass the City of Gary...it will be MUCH more manageable. The process could start with Miller seceding from the city all together.
I think you have to keep in mind that in the heart of the Gary's boom in the 50s, it was very common for people to not have a college education, and still hold great jobs. People in Gary were educated relative to the standards of the world at that time, so I don't think you can chalk this up to lack of education back then, that's not an accurate representation.
Gary is the second most liberal city in the U.S.; with Detroit Michigan coming in at number one. Kinda tells its own story.
Ehhh although I share political views with you, I don't think a city's political reputation can be viewed as the main reason the city is the way it is. Several cities would debunk your theory, such as San Francisco, Seattle, Boston, etc. They are very liberal cities and are not in the same hole Gary and Detroit are in.
Now, with that said, another topic would be what is the common thread between Detroit proper and Gary? Maybe we can wake up and look at that as a reason.
Last edited by svillechris; 07-23-2010 at 09:33 AM..
Good points, and I don't really disagree, but I would ask you the following in response to your statement: If Munster, Dyer, Schererville were all able to "transition to bedroom communities for Chicago", what has stopped Gary from doing so? Chesterton is a fabulous town and isn't linked up to a Chicago to a great extent, doesn't have a university or hospital, and is further from Illinois than Gary.
IMO *one* of the reasons why Chesterton has bloomed into what it is is because it is adjacent to the National Lakeshore. Nat'l lakeshore = protected buffer zone b/w heavy industry on the rest of the shoreline = increased property values = prosperous city, as opposed to Gary = heavy industry = decreased property values = economically depressed area.
I agree with Northwest Indiana too. I don't think the deal is sealed for Gary just yet. Look at some of the Chicago neighborhoods that were able to turn around. Any one who lived in Wicker Park 20 years ago would tell you it was an area you did not want to be caught in at night, now it's a highly sought-after place to live. Same thing has happened across the country in other neighborhoods.
The problem with Gary is that it is so BIG. Gentrification would almost have to be a small, incremental process. Neighborhood by neighborhood, and Miller Beach would be the logical place to start because it has more going for it than the rest of the city.
The key is getting developers to invest in the area, and if they are going to invest then then pros have to outweigh the cons. Some of the pros are its proximity to Chicago, location on the lakefront, and (maybe) the steel industry. The cons are high crime, pervasive urban blight, and (maybe) the steel industry, or at least the pollution.
Gary is going to have to redefine itself if it is to ever change, but I really think things could start looking up with the right people in control who know how do get things done the right way.
IMO *one* of the reasons why Chesterton has bloomed into what it is is because it is adjacent to the National Lakeshore. Nat'l lakeshore = protected buffer zone b/w heavy industry on the rest of the shoreline = increased property values = prosperous city, as opposed to Gary = heavy industry = decreased property values = economically depressed area.
I agree with Northwest Indiana too. I don't think the deal is sealed for Gary just yet. Look at some of the Chicago neighborhoods that were able to turn around. Any one who lived in Wicker Park 20 years ago would tell you it was an area you did not want to be caught in at night, now it's a highly sought-after place to live. Same thing has happened across the country in other neighborhoods.
The problem with Gary is that it is so BIG. Gentrification would almost have to be a small, incremental process. Neighborhood by neighborhood, and Miller Beach would be the logical place to start because it has more going for it than the rest of the city.
The key is getting developers to invest in the area, and if they are going to invest then then pros have to outweigh the cons. Some of the pros are its proximity to Chicago, location on the lakefront, and (maybe) the steel industry. The cons are high crime, pervasive urban blight, and (maybe) the steel industry, or at least the pollution.
Gary is going to have to redefine itself if it is to ever change, but I really think things could start looking up with the right people in control who know how do get things done the right way.
The lakefront would be a BIG plus - if Gary actually HAD lakefront that is. Except for Miller, all of Gary's would-be lakefront land is owned by the steel industry.
I think you have to keep in mind that in the heart of the Gary's boom in the 50s, it was very common for people to not have a college education, and still hold great jobs. People in Gary were educated relative to the standards of the world at that time, so I don't think you can chalk this up to lack of education back then, that's not an accurate representation.
I understand what you are saying...however I have to respectfully disagree a little bit. When so much of a population relies upon a single industry to essentially be prosperous, it creates a HUGE risk. When more than 50% of people in a LARGE city work for the same industry (or even same company) and trouble begins, it is a HUGE problem. When Munster began to boom, people moving in were in all types of industries, (mostly college educated white collar), and some blue collar. If one of their companies went under, it may not necessarily affect their neighbor as well. In Gary it did. Neighborhoods were left vacant because a whole neighborhood was out of work and they had to find jobs. The process by which they found jobs included going back to school to attain a degree. Not everyone did, but a good portion did. Many of those who did not may have had to leave NWI for the south to continue work. But as Gary began to decline, people who found new work were not willing to reinvest in Gary so they left. why reinvest when a whole industry (that is pretty much the backbone of the town) is failing? It does not make to much sense. So while I do not think that a lack of formal education was a HUGE part of it, the fact that many people did not have a formal education to expand their career possibilities coupled with the fact that Gary was primarily built around the steel industry where the majority of people worked, contributed to its demise. After so, white flight really put some nails in the coffin. I do not think Gary is 100% dead yet, but for any serious progress to occur, some drastic steps need to be taken. If possible, incorporating Gary's neighborhoods in separate villages should help make the process less challenging and more attractive to investors.
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