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To LoveSummer7- I hear what you are saying but I don't think most Mainlanders realize how expensive Oahu really is. There are "hidden" costs that you won't be aware of until you live here. For example, a single family house, not condo, in Hawaii Kai, that is listed for $700,000. probably needs a fair amount of work. You probably won't get more than 1800 sq. feet which for the O.P. with two teenagers, may be ok but I read one of her past posts and she thought $350. per month on condo fees was outrageous. In Hawaii Kai, a two bedroom condo will run at least $500,000. and at least $500. per month condo fees. Gas is extremely expensive on Oahu, everything costs more because everything(well mostly everything) needs to be shipped in, quality education is expensive though some of the Catholic schools are cheaper than Iolani and Punahou. It's not just money though. Moving teenagers from the mainland to Oahu, esp. Haole kids is really tough. It seems selfish, as well. There are plenty of wonderful states in the U.S. with excellent public education and why not move AFTER her kids are out of high school. My hubby and I Love the H.I. but we did what is best for our family and now live with excellent public education and almost half of cost of living. We can visit our Ohana on Oahu whenever our kids have school break and we always feel welcome. I would never advise anyone without close friends and/or family to move to H.I. esp. someone with kids entering high school. I try to be an optimist, generally, but in the O.P.'s case, I feel compelled to give my honest opinion. People come to this forum for advice, not a cheerleading session. I think it's difficult for anyone to move their family with teenagers to Oahu even if they are wealthy. I have spoken to many Haoles who have grown up on Oahu and went to Punahou and even for them, it was difficult. Research and talk to locals for yourself.
Jonah.. thanks for the links.. they were very interesting and informative!
Dr. Vox... fair enough! Opinion noted!
Yankeemama... I guess since I'm a total type A personality who researches everything to death, I can't fathom moving anywhere, never mind to an isolated place such as Hawaii, without spending months educating oneself about everything. I'd like to think most people would be equally diligent, but I suppose it would be naive of me to think that everyone plans things out in that way.
On the education issue, I'd come to the conclusion that for MY family, I'd like to budget for the expense of private tuition just in case it really is as bad as people say it is. I like to plan for the worst, and hope for the best!
I often wonder what would be said about the public schools here where I live now... I suspect the old highschool I went to would be spoken of quite badly on forums like these. Class sizes were large, there were several hundred students in my grade 12 graduating class, lots of kids fell into drugs, you were very much in the minority if you had your grades average more than 90% like mine did etc... And that was in an above average neighbourhood.
Our local university is often ranked as one of the worst in the country, yet most people living here who want to go to University (myself included) go there because it's less expensive than moving away for school, and we generally are able to get good jobs afterwards.
Anyhow, just trying to figure out how things there would be compared to here where I am now. The race thing is a whole other issue... here it is a non-issue for us... in Hawaii, who knows... Some have told me they've had no issues, others have felt it's been a huge problem.
This may sound silly, but I one of the reasons I am not just accepting as fact that private school is a must is the way I've seen other issues such as the bug issue exaggerated. Seriously, 10 years ago when we first visited Hawaii for our honeymoon, we almost chose some other destination because of numerous forums that literally made Hawaii sound like some creepy bug-infested hell. We ended up coming here anyway, stayed in 3-star places, hiked and explored, and had none of the issues that we'd read about. So, with that experience in mind, I can't help but question whether or not the public schools in Hawaii are really so bad.
Anyhow, I'll keep reading and asking... but I suppose in the end, I'll never be 100% certain of what to do until I get there.
The bug us sue is not an exaggeration. Living here and visiting in a hotel, esp. good to excellent hotels/ condos, are two different situations entirely. Any hotel has air conditioning and exterminators which deter bugs. I lived in constant air conditioning for two years. Ask my husband how much it cost per month for our utility bill. My next neighbor opened windows and had **** roaches, cane spiders, centipedes( crawled on her baby), and of course, baby lizards. I had just baby lizards. Nothing else for two years. I used to see huge **** roaches in the atrached garage every once in awhile because no air conditioning out there. People on this forum are not exaggerating. The race issue is a real issue. Hawaii has unique history. There are books upon books dealing with the issues that affect H.I. The public school issue is not exaggerated. I am surprised that upon doing extensive research, you have not read about Native Hawaiian culture, "local" culture and the plantation culture which is still has effects and will explain the different racial terms/ slang that is commonly used. There is a great deal of information out there. There are many Hawaiian book stores in Honolulu proper that sell excellent books about Hawaiian history/ culture, Hawaiian crafts tat benefit local artisans, and Hawaiian products. Did you see any of these stores on your last vacation to Waikiki? I am not trying to sound snarky, but you sound like you need to research a bit more about a potential place to live that is NOT like any other state in the U.S. Or Canada, for that matter. Remember, the Hawaiian People did not get there land; there are no reservations on the H.I. The Hawaiians are still trying to get their deserved land from the U.S. Gov't.
I guess on the bug issue, I would have full intentions of using air-conditioning liberally (and yes, paying the high electric bills that go along with that), and using exterminators as often as needed also. I've heard that many need to tent their homes every few years to keep termites at bay also.
We plan on purchasing a new home... so that should help also (ie. in comparison to purchasing for example a 30 year old home that may or may not have been built with modern building standards).
I'm thinking the bug issue should be manageable then. Not expecting to never see a bug, but am thinking it should be kept to reasonable levels.
Regarding my reading, yes, I've read much about Hawaiian culture, the history of the islands and so on. I realize there are no doubt many Hawaiians who feel lot of resentment towards caucasians and others who "took over" their land etc. But I suppose I tend to think the best of people, and therefore think that generally speaking, one gets back what one gives out. ie. a positive, respectful attitude will make a huge difference in how people treat you.
As an example, my job currently involves working in the inner city where most of the clients I deal with are aboriginal. There can be HUGE issues with racism (both caucasian against aboriginals and vice versa, and a lot of this stems from our country's history) But I've found that as long as I treat them with respect, I am treated with respect in return. We're all just people after all... just trying to do our best, know what I mean? Granted, I've had the occasional aboriginal person who has made negative assumptions about me based on nothing more than the fact that I am white, but it has been the exception rather than the rule.
We're not the kind of people that go on vacation to just sit by the pool sunning ourselves, hiding out from the local culture. We get out and see stuff... explore...talk to people etc.
So for me as an adult, I'm not concerned about any racism in Hawaii... I can handle it if it comes up... My kids on the other hand, I would be more concerned with them. Growing up is tough enough without adding that into the mix. So if our kids were to run into excessive problems with racism in school, we would be sure to pay up and put them in a private school where it would hopefully be less of an issue. If the problem were still out of hand, we'd move back here. Also, my kids are both toddlers right now... so I think the risk to them of a big move like this would be less compared to moving with teenagers.
Regarding reservations, the aboriginal people here who live on reservations often live in deplorable third-world conditions... hopefully if the Hawaiian people ever get land from the government, it works out much better for them than it did for many of our aboriginal people.
Last edited by LoveSummer7; 09-05-2010 at 08:05 PM..
So, with that experience in mind, I can't help but question whether or not the public schools in Hawaii are really so bad.
If you consider standardized tests, like the SAT, public school students in Hawai'i do rather poorly overall. Here's a link to the College Board's "Hawai'i State Profile Report." http://professionals.collegeboard.co...9_03_03_01.pdf
Table 5 and Table 7 in the report are somewhat revealing. For instance, the public school students of a state like Nebraska tend to do better on the SAT than private school students of Hawai'i. http://professionals.collegeboard.co...9_03_03_01.pdf
LoveSummer7, I love your attitude, but please, please understand that people are not exaggerating on this site or otherwise blowing stuff out of proportion. What people report here is the truth (well, sometimes as they see it), in an effort to help people understand that living in Hawaii is way different than visiting.
Regarding the bugs, our house is five years old (I think this fits your definition of "new"), and we have Terminex come out every three months. We still find some centipedes, cane spiders, roaches etc. inside the house. I'd love it get a cat if it weren't for allergies. Ants galore, you can never get rid of the ants. Knowing that we are living on a tropical island with bugs, we just are careful in putting on shoes and checking the bed at night.
Regarding air conditioning, we live where there are tradewinds. Our house has no ac in it; our ac is opening the proper windows a certain width to get the breeze. We have screens on the windows, so it's not like we are letting bugs in.
Regarding racism, I know that I am as a haole regarded as an outsider. So, I try to honor and respect the traditions and feelings of my Hawaiian neighbors. My husband and I don't go to obvious places where locals may not want us. It really is pretty simple, and we've never had any problems.
LoveSummer7, I love your attitude, but please, please understand that people are not exaggerating on this site or otherwise blowing stuff out of proportion. What people report here is the truth (well, sometimes as they see it), in an effort to help people understand that living in Hawaii is way different than visiting.
Fair enough. It's just that it's hard to know sometimes as an outsider on a forum like this how much is true for all, how much is true depending on where you live, and how much is true depending on what kind of person you are etc. Not sure if I explained what I mean well enough there, but hopefully I did ok
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreaming of Hawaii
Regarding the bugs, our house is five years old (I think this fits your definition of "new"), and we have Terminex come out every three months. We still find some centipedes, cane spiders, roaches etc. inside the house. I'd love it get a cat if it weren't for allergies. Ants galore, you can never get rid of the ants. Knowing that we are living on a tropical island with bugs, we just are careful in putting on shoes and checking the bed at night.
Yes, I'd say 5 years old is quite new indeed!
I've been checking out videos of cane spiders on Youtube haha... all I can say if oh my freaking goodness... THAT would certainly take some getting used to lol However, I am consoled by the fact that they aren't poisonous, and apparently rarely bite. And, well, I suppose the fact that they eat other bugs is a somewhat redeeming quality. I'm thinking that perhaps with enough "youtube-cane-spider-video-watching-desensitization-therapy" all fears can be overcome!
As for ants galore, I've heard they can be a real nuisance. Can't remember where I read it, but someone was saying they can even crawl into closed jars by the getting around the threads. ack! But surely there are ways outwitting the darned things... ziplock bags were suggested as a useful ant-proof storage solution if I recall correctly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreaming of Hawaii
I try to honor and respect the traditions and feelings of my Hawaiian neighbors. My husband and I don't go to obvious places where locals may not want us. It really is pretty simple, and we've never had any problems.
Sounds like a sensible strategy. I'm hoping the same would work for us!
Pansygal - I was born and raised on Oahu on the northshore. I am haole and even for me who was raised there (and not a transplant, which your children will be) It was hard. I moved to the mainland my senior Year of HS and I can not describe to you how far behind I was compared to mainland schools. You commented about discrimination regarding mixed races..... On the mainland it is a race thing.
On the islands it is a CULTURE thing.
I am sure people will disagree with me, however I think it is almost impossible for a haole mainlander to truly understand and appreciate the culture of the people. That is what causes the tension, not the color of the skin.
I have 2 children of my own and 16 years before I can return home to live because I refuse to give my children the education that they provide there. If you can't afford to send them to a private school there..... WAIT until they are out of school. For there sake.
Pacific Buddhist Academy also tends to be a little less selective, but are VERY BIG on character. Again, if you don't have kids, and you have unlimited funds(i.e your last name is Slim, Buffett or Gates), living in Hawai'i is about as close to heaven as you will ever get, and you can pretty much live the "tourist dream". If you have kids, and your struggling financially, welcome to hell.
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However, I am consoled by the fact that they aren't poisonous, and apparently rarely bite. And, well, I suppose the fact that they eat other bugs is a somewhat redeeming quality. I'm thinking that perhaps with enough "youtube-cane-spider-video-watching-desensitization-therapy" all fears can be overcome!
