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Maybe I'm missing something. But isn't Hawaii surrounded by ocean, and ocean creatures absolutely everywhere? Are these not edible?
I mean, if we were to accept that the world is doomed, and we all should live in rural Idaho and be self-sufficient. Granted, people can't have a cow, chickens, and grow veggie gardens anywhere in LA or HNL...but short of that, if you don't have that already.
Eating berries off the trees of rural Idaho (if you just lived there without the cow and chickens) or foraging from fish in the sea. I don't know, seems like it would be a wash, from a doomsdayer's perspective.
As a non-doomsday person, I'd imagine me wandering around rural Idaho trying to pick berries (without having said farm with cows and chickens), would probably end with me getting shot in the head from picking a fruit off someone's private ranch.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 05-05-2014 at 11:18 PM..
If a Tsunami wiped out our harbors, it is a bit naïve to think we'd fish enough for over a million people - remember, no harbors, not many boats.....
Granted, we're doing the paranoid doomsday person's mind.
But, the reality is the American military is enormous in Hawaii, and I think we can all very quickly assume that if a tsunami wiped out the harbors, the US military would be all over that in a mini-heartbeat.
I think the paranoid doomsday person though sees more of a 'entire world goes to hell' scenario via Apocalypse, Armageddon, Rapture, Nuclear War, extremely large comet, and who knows what else they conjure up.
But, the reality is the American military is enormous in Hawaii, and I think we can all very quickly assume that if a tsunami wiped out the harbors, the US military would be all over that in a mini-heartbeat.
Well, you are thinking doomsday. But a Tsunami could really wipe out our ports.
And I don't believe the military is set up for fishing.
Even without a tsunami I doubt fishermen could support our population, just from the fact that we have less boatslips then most other states.
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Even without a tsunami I doubt fishermen could support our population, just from the fact that we have less boatslips then most other states.
Fishing alone couldn't support the population of Hawaiʻi in the 14th Century, so it's unlikely to support the current population. Ancient Hawaiians built loko ʻia (fishponds) to help satisfy the demand for seafood.
Fishing alone couldn't support the population of Hawaiʻi in the 14th Century, so it's unlikely to support the current population. Ancient Hawaiians built loko ʻia (fishponds) to help satisfy the demand for seafood.
I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that the fish from the fishponds was for royalty, not for commoners, and that caught fish were a small portion of the typical diet.
In any case, poi was the staple food of the Hawaiians before the Europeans started showing up, along with bananas, coconuts, sweet potatoes, yams, breadfruit, mountain apples, and a few wild berries and other things. Their diet was quite limited and quite bland, by most accounts.
Compare that with a contemporary supermarket which might stock 15,000 separate food items. Convenience and novelty sell in our contemporary market. Promoting food security in Hawai'i is tricky because there are so many different concepts of what "normal" food is. Some families are deeply entrenched in the dominant American mainland paradigm of wheat and corn based diets with lots of meat, others in Asian styles based on rice and soy, and smaller portions of fish and meat.
Supermarket produce sections offer lots of shipped-in fruits and vegetables that are familiar to people raised in the mainland culture, but many of which are not suitable for cultivation in Hawai'i. Smaller assortments of locally grown produce, much of Asian heritage are available, but don't sell as well. So what should a small farmer grow, in order to get the best return on his various investments? It's not an easy equation to solve.
And besides, if the normal supply lines are disrupted, even if only for a few weeks, it's too late to go out in the fields and plant the foods that will suddenly be in high demand. The only real way to provide food security to the islands is to grow and consume more local food on a day to day basis. But that would be a challenge to promote. Home cooks in Hawai'i like their convenience foods as much as those on the mainland, even if they mostly have to be shipped in from afar.
I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that the fish from the fishponds was for royalty, not for commoners, and that caught fish were a small portion of the typical diet.
While the aliʻi (royalty) had control over the allocation of fish from the fishponds, folks that weren't aliʻi were allowed to consume fish from the fishponds as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD
In any case, poi was the staple food of the Hawaiians before the Europeans started showing up, along with bananas, coconuts, sweet potatoes, yams, breadfruit, mountain apples, and a few wild berries and other things. Their diet was quite limited and quite bland, by most accounts.
Pig, dog, chicken and shellfish were also part of the Hawaiian diet before Europeans showed up. Salt, kukui, limu (seaweed), and hōʻiʻo (a native fern) might be "bland" to some folks, but they suited the traditional Hawaiian palate just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD
Compare that with a contemporary supermarket which might stock 15,000 separate food items. Convenience and novelty sell in our contemporary market. Promoting food security in Hawai'i is tricky because there are so many different concepts of what "normal" food is. Some families are deeply entrenched in the dominant American mainland paradigm of wheat and corn based diets with lots of meat, others in Asian styles based on rice and soy, and smaller portions of fish and meat.
Supermarket produce sections offer lots of shipped-in fruits and vegetables that are familiar to people raised in the mainland culture, but many of which are not suitable for cultivation in Hawai'i. Smaller assortments of locally grown produce, much of Asian heritage are available, but don't sell as well. So what should a small farmer grow, in order to get the best return on his various investments? It's not an easy equation to solve.
And besides, if the normal supply lines are disrupted, even if only for a few weeks, it's too late to go out in the fields and plant the foods that will suddenly be in high demand. The only real way to provide food security to the islands is to grow and consume more local food on a day to day basis. But that would be a challenge to promote. Home cooks in Hawai'i like their convenience foods as much as those on the mainland, even if they mostly have to be shipped in from afar.
I agree. Of course, if the supply lines were disrupted long enough, some folks on the Big Island would probably end up adding coqui frogs, centipedes, and Albizia leaves and shoots to their diets.
Wow Mahalo, you guys really need to talk more about Hawai'ian history, i always learn something from you guy and enjoy the learning experience.
The real kudos go to Jonah K, as far as I am concerned. I am a poor student by comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonah K
While the aliʻi (royalty) had control over the allocation of fish from the fishponds, folks that weren't aliʻi were allowed to consume fish from the fishponds as well.
What I had remembered was that there was a kapu (tabu) on commoners eating fish from a Chief's fish ponds, and that it was punishable by death. Digging deeper today I read that there were complex rules about fish and seafood, with permitted "seasons" for taking different kinds of fish, designed to allow sustainable harvests. Women and children caught fish, seashells, mollusks, turtles, eels and harvested seaweed. Some men uses 6' lances to spear fish, or used throw nets or poisoned fish with herbal substances. Other men used hooks on long lines to catch deepwater fish like tuna.
As I understand it, the chief's fish ponds were built by commoners, and maintained by commoners, but those commoners were not allowed to eat the mullet and milkfish that were raised there. They had different ponds were netted fish could be kept alive for later use, and small fish could be kept in the ponds where wet kalo (taro) was grown.
Another interesting detail... they used air drying and salt curing to preserve excess fish for later use. An early Food Security plan, eh?
Quote:
Pig, dog, chicken and shellfish were also part of the Hawaiian diet before Europeans showed up.
I call this a fascinating detail from the above document... dog was the most favored meat taste, ahead of pig, while chicken was the least favorite of the three. I guess the Huli Huli recipe hadn't been invented yet...
Quote:
Salt, kukui, limu (seaweed), and hōʻiʻo (a native fern) might be "bland" to some folks, but they suited the traditional Hawaiian palate just fine.
Salt, kukui, and limu are still used as condiments for traditional style poke. In addition to the previously mentioned foods, the fruit and seeds of the pandanus and trapped wild birds were also eaten. But the plant based staple food of the Native Hawaiians was poi.
I've tasted poi a few times at big feasts, and I see it for sale at KTA Market, and I respect the spiritual connection Native Hawaiians have with poi, but honestly, I'd be hard pressed to have to eat it every day. Call me shallow, call me a creature of habit, but just pass me the sweet potatoes please.
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