Senate Transportation Committee votes to extend rail tax 25 years (sales, 2015)

[whtviper1]

"After hearing testimony on why Oahu’s rail tax should be made permanent, the Senate Transportation Committee voted 8-0 Thursday to extend the surcharge to the state’s general excise tax another 25 years."

"Caldwell said the rail project is about transportation equity for residents of the Ewa plain and admitted the 20-mile system from East Kapolei to the Ala Moana Shopping Center has hit a rough patch with a projected budget deficit of $910 million. However, the mayor said the half-percent rail surcharge is the fairest way to generate money to complete the system without having to raise property taxes as much as 40 percent."

Senate Transportation Committee votes to extend rail tax 25 years | More Local News - KITV Home

I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

[hotzcatz]

It's rare for politicians to give back a tax once they've got it so that part is not surprising.

Raising property taxes by 40% might be interesting. That would cause all kinds of chaos. Separate the haves from the have nots even more, possibly cause a drop in property prices from folks having to sell, etc. etc. The fall out from that sort of thing could get politicians lynched so I doubt they ever actually seriously considered it. To me, the idea of "raise property taxes by 40%" sounds like some sort of scare tactic and it seems a pity the politicians resort to that sort of tactic.

[pj737]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

It's rare for politicians to give back a tax once they've got it so that part is not surprising.

Yup. Anyone that thought the tax was only temporary has the mental equivalent of a toaster. Unfortunately that's well over 50% of our population.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

Raising property taxes by 40% might be interesting. That would cause all kinds of chaos. Separate the haves from the have nots even more, possibly cause a drop in property prices from folks having to sell, etc. etc. The fall out from that sort of thing could get politicians lynched so I doubt they ever actually seriously considered it. To me, the idea of "raise property taxes by 40%" sounds like some sort of scare tactic and it seems a pity the politicians resort to that sort of tactic.

Having lived in California - I find property taxes ridiculously low. Lower than they should be. I'd have no problem with property taxes going up 40% if it was directed at the poor education system in Hawaii. If my home was in California, I'd be paying well over $20,000/year - here, roughly $6,000 - something doesn't make sense with those figures. And since property tax is tax deductible, you wouldn't feel the full impact of the 40%.

[hawaiian by heart]

If i understand the rail system is already way over budget and behind schedule? Is this because the price of raw goods is more expensive? Or is this another example of poor management and not doing careful planning for the future? Just wondering. And how do you measure success for a project like this? Do you compare it to similar projects from other areas?

Is it reasonable to continue taxing or raising taxes in an area the has the highest cost of living? For a rail system that some speculate that won't really solve the traffic congestion issue. Whats even more scary is by the time its done. How much will they have to charge to ride lightrail to balance costs?

[pj737]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Having lived in California - I find property taxes ridiculously low. Lower than they should be. I'd have no problem with property taxes going up 40% if it was directed at the poor education system in Hawaii. If my home was in California, I'd be paying well over $20,000/year - here, roughly $6,000 - something doesn't make sense with those figures. And since property tax is tax deductible, you wouldn't feel the full impact of the 40%.

You're kidding right? Real property tax is lower than it should be? That's like saying Nevada should have a sales tax because 0 is pretty darn low (Hint - nobody in Nevada says that).

Hawaii has the highest state income tax in the country.

Hawaii has (by far) the highest effective "sales" tax in the country. It's disguised at GET.

Not a penny of real property tax revenue goes to our education system.

Real property tax is the only area that we have some relief.

And if you aren't aware, as of 2015, all single family and two-family homes on Oahu that are not owner-occupied and are worth over $1M now incur a real property tax rate which is 71.5% higher than it's been for decades.

There are better methods of keeping our population in check.

[pj737]

Originally Posted by hawaiian by heart

If i understand the rail system is already way over budget and behind schedule? Is this because the price of raw goods is more expensive? Or is this another example of poor management and not doing careful planning for the future? Just wondering. And how do you measure success for a project like this? Do you compare it to similar projects from other areas?

Is it reasonable to continue taxing or raising taxes in an area the has the highest cost of living? For a rail system that some speculate that won't really solve the traffic congestion issue. Whats even more scary is by the time its done. How much will they have to charge to ride lightrail to balance costs?

The rail is a carefully crafted land development scheme. Period. It has NEVER been about solving traffic because it will only make it worse. Much worse.

Since 2006 I've been saying this project will run $2B over budget once it's all said and done. I'm right on track (pun intended). In 2006 I said the city will lie through their teeth to convince voters to support it. Then they would start construction, get far enough along the process where it's "too late to turn back", then reveal to the voters we are way, way over budget. As stated, exactly as I predicted.

All I can say now it to move into the urban core as fast as you can. The next steps will be GPS based toll roads and high gas taxes. Commuting by car is going to get very, very expensive over the next decade. It will be so cost prohibitive to drive any far distance it will force people to ride the train. That's the plan.

Sorry for the horn tooting but this was so ridiculously obvious from day one. You didn't have to be smart at all to see this coming.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by pj737

You're kidding right? Real property tax is lower than it should be? That's like saying Nevada should have a sales tax because 0 is pretty darn low (Hint - nobody in Nevada says that).

Hawaii has the highest state income tax in the country.

Hawaii has (by far) the highest effective "sales" tax in the country. It's disguised at GET.

Not a penny of real property tax revenue goes to our education system.

Real property tax is the only area that we have some relief.

And if you aren't aware, as of 2015, all single family and two-family homes on Oahu that are not owner-occupied and are worth over $1M now incur a real property tax rate which is 71.5% higher than it's been for decades.

There are better methods of keeping our population in check.

I said - I'd support higher property taxes if it went to education. The state income tax brackets aren't bad until to get to the top rate. Even then, one should feel fortunate to be there.

This site suggests our burden is only #20 in the nation.

Release of Annual State-Local Tax Burdens Rankings | Tax Foundation

[hawaiian by heart]

@pj737

Isnt that about par for Hawai'i government on most redevelopements or big projects from what im told?

[honobob]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

the Senate Transportation Committee voted 8-0 Thursday to extend the surcharge to the state’s general excise tax another 25 years."

Wheeee! This has to guarantee the Oahu-Maui line. MAUI 2040 T-shirts on order now.