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pj737 I appreciate you saying what ive been trying to say for along time, you have better use of words thou. Yes its sad, whats going to happen when people do finally realise the damage is too extensive for the aina and it can't be recovered? Eh, sorry you were right? or what are we going to say? We told you so?
Honest i really don't think anyone has an ideal of a solution to the issues faced on oahu except build up or more. If you challenge that ideal then your "the bad guy". Maybe find ideals that work with nature then conquering it.
Perhaps. I know the developers of Hoopili are required to add an additional lane to the H1 in it's area.
The land WAS agriculture right? And got rezoned.
Why wasn't any of it being USED for agriculture? No farms are being bulldozed, just acres of scrub.
The lanes they are adding will only reduce congestion in the immediate area. That addresses no traffic concerns. There will still be the half dozen bottlenecks that occur all the way into town. The congestion in those bottlenecks will increase further making the overall commute time much longer. The hope is that those people that move to these communities will exclusively ride the train to work. Of course that is entirely pie in the sky.
Yes it was zoned ag and is now a mix of mostly residential with some commercial.
Because the landowners were holding out for years to convert to residential use. Once they start using it for ag like it was once used for and intended for they would have had a very difficult time building over it. It's all politics; nothing else.
Everyone complains because once you pave over farm land it's gone FOREVER. Market dynamics change. Food costs fluctuate across the globe due to a myriad of environmental, political, economic and social influences that we have no control over here on our tiny island. What is too expensive to grow locally today may not be 10 or 20 years from now. Literally everything we eat will need to be shipped 3,000+ miles. That's ridiculous. Further, the term is called "sustainability", and as we all know, there is a value to that which does not always encompass money. That land which could be used to feed our local people will now be gone forever. Preserving existing farmland would contribute to our island's food and energy supply (yes, you can grow plants and convert them to fuel/electricity), economic diversity and open space. It's sad and unfortunate that the people of our island don't care.
No, I doubt that literally we will have all food shipped in, a lot, yes, but not all.
On the North Shore they are selling property that is around an acre or 5? You may build a house but the rest must be farmed.
For all our governments shortcomings (endless list) at least they now seem to be doing growth planning, and it is long overdue.
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There are many people willing to pay a premium for fresh, locally produced food. I am one of them. I buy my produce exclusively from local farmer's markets or stores that sell food that is produced locally. And no you don't have to be rich to buy local. Much of the produce at farmer's markets is actually cheaper than that found in the big chain supermarkets where most of their pesticide-rich produce is imported from Timbuktu.
Be careful, it's known that a lot of the farmer's get their stuff from Costco and then sell at farmer's markets. Just keep an eye out, it's pretty easy to tell when something is grown here.
The tomatoes and spinach I grow at home look nothing like what is shipped in. They taste like a completely different food.
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How do people save thousands a month by not having to rent retail space? You mean by owning it? Wouldn't they just have a mortgage instead? Other than saving commute time, there is no savings to the owner/renter of a mixed use property. Worse, actually, they will most likely have to pay the commercial property tax rate (nearly quadruple the residential rate) on the ENTIRE property even if half of it is used for residential use.
The addition to the mortgage would be significantly less than a retail space. Not sure on the commercial property tax, I'm sure it is not much different than having a home business without the business "front."
They seem to be selling well, and not all of them are with the business space. They are mixed with a wide range of townhomes, some as small as 750 sq ft. That size is a welcome addition for single people looking for their first home.
I'm pretty happy with the changes and growth I've seen. Hawaii was long past due for some of these ideas.
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The lanes they are adding will only reduce congestion in the immediate area. That addresses no traffic concerns. There will still be the half dozen bottlenecks that occur all the way into town. The congestion in those bottlenecks will increase further making the overall commute time much longer. The hope is that those people that move to these communities will exclusively ride the train to work. Of course that is entirely pie in the sky.
Yes it was zoned ag and is now a mix of mostly residential with some commercial.
Because the landowners were holding out for years to convert to residential use. Once they start using it for ag like it was once used for and intended for they would have had a very difficult time building over it. It's all politics; nothing else.
Most of that I agree with, but if you have 100 acres of Ag Land that is never used to grow anything..... what's the point?
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Some folks call that Whole Foods - for which one will be opening in Kakaako.
Wait. You're saying Whole Foods is known for fresh, locally produced food? That's hilarious.
Foodland, Safeway, Times, etc all carry local produce and at much better prices than Whole Foods. Farmer's markets offer the best value over all supermarket options. The only thing Whole Foods is known for (at least to intelligent, informed people) is great marketing. That and ripping people off. With all those profits, they can spend a great deal on ingenious marketing to reel in wealthy suckers.
No, I doubt that literally we will have all food shipped in, a lot, yes, but not all.
We are currently at 85% in terms of what is shipped in vs produced locally. That will increase to well over 90% in the coming decades. Of course not every drop of food will be shipped here but an 85% import ratio is already a staggering figure considering we have the resources to produce 90% LOCALLY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
On the North Shore they are selling property that is around an acre or 5? You may build a house but the rest must be farmed.
Wrong. The land does NOT need to be farmed. They just can't use the land for anything but farming. No other structures can be erected on the space and it cannot be used for any other purpose except ag. The state nor the city is going to come in and fine them if they aren't using the land to farm. Most wealthy people will simply keep the land clear and use them as vast open space buffer zones from other neighbors. Wealthy people want to be far away from other residents. It's all about luxury - not sustainability. There is literally ZERO penalty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43
For all our governments shortcomings (endless list) at least they now seem to be doing growth planning, and it is long overdue.
I disagree. There is a lot more that we can do. Sustainable options never come to fruition if there isn't someone up at the top that can profit from it. That in itself is a massive failure of government.
Most of that I agree with, but if you have 100 acres of Ag Land that is never used to grow anything..... what's the point?
Exactly. You (and most of the general public) fell for their ploy - hook line and sinker. If you owned the land and knew that enough coercing and bribing will guarantee that your land value will increase 200-fold, why would you ever use it for farming?
The correct thing to do was to force a 99-year ag-only requirement on the land. That way the landowners will be forced to use the land for its intended purpose - agriculture (and yes, they can make money on it utilizing it for ag - just nowhere near as much as res/comm). Actually using it for its intended purpose while they are trying to up-zone it will only shoot themselves in the foot. The public will revolt if modern agriculture businesses are well-established on their lands and they want to eliminate it in favor of more housing. It would never happen.
Last edited by pj737; 07-05-2015 at 07:11 PM..
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or what are we going to say? We told you so?
