Red Hill Shaft Oil/Water Contamination (Anyone affected? Rental price impact, etc.) (Pearl City: hotels, houses)

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by pj737

As I noted, land + construction cost + development costs are definitely within that range. How would I know? I'm building my own house right now.


I'm sorry you are out of touch of what things actually cost here. Hopefully this information was enlightening.

Then you are getting ripped off. I've built houses on the island.

You can buy turnkey remodeled houses - with pool - and greater square footage - in highly desirable areas for $2M. And you can certainly buy teardowns - and build - a 2,000 sq ft home for well under $2M - if you know what you are doing.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident

… I could feed a family of three (parent and two small minors) on $100 a week, even on Oahu, …

Lol … I don’t think so. Theoretically … rice and beans, yeah … on a hot plate … like anybody not panhandling for survival would do that. Pretty much double that to make a family of three work in Waikiki.

As for living on ABC store hot dogs … uh …..

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by pj737

As I noted, land + construction cost + development costs are definitely within that range. How would I know? I'm building my own house right now.

Tear down house cost $1.05M which actually was a really good deal. I am building a modest size house of 2,000 SF, 3 bd, 3 bath + 2 car garage with decent finishes but by no means opulent. I have a friend that is spending $600/SF to build his house with very nice finishes. And I know ultra lux houses go $1,000++/SF. But let's just stick to my slightly above average finish house... Construction cost came in just shy of $750K including some site work (excavating, retaining walls) that needed to be addressed but nothing too crazy. Consultants incl structural, architectural cost me $40K. It will be completed roughly 30 months after I closed on the tear down property. It took 6 months to complete the building permit plans for submittal. It also took 10 months to get a demolition permit from the city although this permit was in process when we started the house design. After 6 months of design and plan completion, it took 10 additional months to get the building permit. Construction is slated to be completed 14 months after start. So I've had money tied up in a piece of dirt for 30 months by the time I have a home I can live in. Interest on land and construction cost paid would come in around $100K. Interest on soft costs and construction cost on average another $30K. Utilities and RP taxes paid over the period come in around $24K. So total soft cost incl interest and come in around $200K. So $1.05M for the land, $750K construction, $200K all soft costs. That is an even $2M. House is 2,000 SF so I'm at $1,000/SF just to start.

But this isn't about me... I was talking about developers. Developers have higher costs including bank bonding requirements, loan acquisition fees, appraisals, higher interest rates because of risk profile, etc. Let's just say that's only 5% which is low. Now we are at $2,050,000. Then there is 6% to the realtor and another 1% to closing cost. So now they are at $2.2M. Then there is this thing called profit that these developers need to make. Let's say that a developer is willing to make a measly 20% profit on a 2.5 year long project. This is about 7% annualized return/year for spec construction which is absolutely unheard of but let's just go with that. So now we are at $2.64M for a developer to turn a profit for this 2,000 SF house. This comes out to $1,320/SF. Let's say the developer has amazing connections on cheap labor and materials and built a dirt cheap budget house with the cheapest finishes imaginable. This gets us to about $1,175/SF. Let's say developer bought a ridiculously tiny lot of 3,000 SF for only $500K (which is unheard of) and somehow managed to squeeze that same house on it (not allowed by zoning but let's pretend)... their cost per SF all in would be down to $950/SF. Well within my $900-$1300/SF range that you thought was absurd.

My company (engineering) are consultants on multifamily housing and all-in costs are well over $700/SF for the most basic, no frills units after all fees are calculated. And this is BEFORE land, carry cost and profit. They have to pay nearly $30K/unit just in permit/permit review/water/sewer/park dedication/DPP fees. Easily pushing the total hard cost for a developer well over $900/SF. People wonder why market rate condos sell for $1,100/SF++. Granted the large developments have economies of scale and get all kinds of freebies and breaks from the city to reduce their fees. Still, they would be losing money selling for sub $1,000/SF for a condo today.

I'm sorry you are out of touch of what things actually cost here. Hopefully this information was enlightening.

Lol … so happy to be living on my 24’ homebuilt boat and my campervan. So much commitment of money, headache, risk to end up with so much maintenance dedication always stuck in one place. Wow.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

As for living on ABC store hot dogs … uh …..

It is an option - and temporary - along with all the other things I noted.

What kid doesn't like hot dogs......

[prospectheightsresident]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Lol … I don’t think so. Theoretically … rice and beans, yeah … on a hot plate … like anybody not panhandling for survival would do that. Pretty much double that to make a family of three work in Waikiki.

As for living on ABC store hot dogs … uh …..

Hey now, Walmart grocery does wonders

Rice, beans, plantains, chicken, ground beef (the extra fatty kind . . . you may break the bank trying to get the lean version), cereal, milk, eggs, white bread, peanut butter and jelly, salad. I could get a week's worth of that for $100. It may get repetitive and old, but plenty of ways to spice things up I say!

Note, this family is in better shape than most, too, as they still have cookware and stuff that they wouldn't have to buy.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

It is an option - and temporary - along with all the other things I noted.

What kid doesn't like hot dogs......

I never did … two of my three grandkids won’t eat ‘em either.

But yeah, that family described is exaggerating for sure … I hope

[pj737]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Then you are getting ripped off. I've built houses on the island.

You can buy turnkey remodeled houses - with pool - and greater square footage - in highly desirable areas for $2M. And you can certainly buy teardowns - and build - a 2,000 sq ft home for well under $2M - if you know what you are doing.

Please let me know where I was ripped off. I got a prime town location nice sized property for a mil. House was technically salvageable but I decided to build new to suit our needs. Construction cost I'm paying is reasonable for what it is. But I'm curious to see what numbers I threw out you feel represent a "rip off" scenario. Please do your best to focus on the numbers as I've outlined them for you.

I've also built other homes in the past at lower price points. But that's irrelevant because I'm clearly discussing what costs are today. Unless you're building now or planning to build now your experience is pointless in this discussion. My father built a larger house in the early 80s for less than 1/4 of what I'm paying today. So with your logic yes I'm being ripped off. Lol.

And yes, you can buy many 2000 SF homes in great locations for $2M. This proves my point that it doesn't make sense for developers to buy land and develop a property as it's not likely they will pull a profit because existing similar homes sell at lower price points. My friend recently picked up a condo in Waikiki. Near penthouse floor unit with breathtaking 270 degree mountain, DH and ocean views with two parking for under $650/SF. And there are many other older lux condos selling in the $700/SF range. A developer would have to sell that high floor unit today at double the cost to just break even. Point is, when you want brand new, you're going to pay. A lot.

[ScottStielow]

Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident

Anyone impacted by this disaster?

I know people who live in affected communities and it is a rough time for them.

Yes, the Navy offered to put them up out in town at hotels or at military hotels elsewhere on island, but many are staying put due to having pets that weren't adjusting to hotel life.

For better or worse, I think there is a fair chance that an increasingly large number of residents will opt out of using military housing with a water source fed by the Red Hill Shaft in the future, instead opting to find housing out in town. Doesn't bode well for those who want housing prices to come down, I wager.

For those who haven’t been tracking:



https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/...nation-crisis/

No issues. Lucky, but city shut down Aiea Wells as a precaution. Just keeping a check on water for any changes or smelling of fuel odor's.
As far as Rental prices still the same sky high prices no change.

[ScottStielow]

Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident

Anyone impacted by this disaster?

I know people who live in affected communities and it is a rough time for them.

Yes, the Navy offered to put them up out in town at hotels or at military hotels elsewhere on island, but many are staying put due to having pets that weren't adjusting to hotel life.

For better or worse, I think there is a fair chance that an increasingly large number of residents will opt out of using military housing with a water source fed by the Red Hill Shaft in the future, instead opting to find housing out in town. Doesn't bode well for those who want housing prices to come down, I wager.

For those who haven’t been tracking:



https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/...nation-crisis/

No issues. Lucky, but city shut down Aiea Wells as a precaution. Just keeping a check on water for any changes or smelling of fuel odor's.
As far as Rental prices still the same sky high prices no change.

[prospectheightsresident]

Originally Posted by ScottStielow

No issues. Lucky, but city shut down Aiea Wells as a precaution. Just keeping a check on water for any changes or smelling of fuel odor's.
As far as Rental prices still the same sky high prices no change.

Good to hear regarding no water impact! I was reading that the folks the Navy is putting up in hotels in Waikiki have to move to another hotel next week (or at least a huge chunk of them). Honestly, I'd probably just stay in my house and use a ton of bottled water and the such to get by as hotel living doesn't sound fun with pets and/or a family.