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How much did you pay in maintenance fees over the years though?
Roughly $70,000 over 30 years. Not a bad deal at all considering what I got back back. I'm not gonna complain about money spent for water/garbage/sewer and maintaining the pool and the grounds while I'm lounging about the pool. There are definitely some economies of scale over my single family home.
The fees should pay for what is needed in a properly managed HOA and should add value to your property. We recently completely redid our pool. It is underused since we're so close to the beach but similar apartments without a pool sell for $20,000 to $30,000 less.
If you think money is not being spent wisely it is up to the owners to correct.
Housing in Hawaii is always more affordable yesterday. Friends from the mainland thought I was crazy to pay almost $35,000 for a one bedroom Diamond Head condo in 1978. They could buy 3beds/2bath single family for less. Now my property is worth over $400,000 and their SFH are less than $200,000.
That $35,000 WAS expensive then, otherwise I'd bought a couple of 'em. TODAY is the good ole days 10-20 years from now.
Actually, $35,000 for a 1bdrm in Hawaii in 1978, isn't bad at all. Sometimes, I hear my unlce talking about the good old days when he bought a studio condo in Chicago for $40,000 in the late 70's.
What you are seeing in that bottom graph, were avg house prices go from one plateau around 300 to a new one around 600 is the deregulation of the mortgage industry. This is what caused the housing boom, and once everyone "owned" more house than they could really afford, the bubble burst.
winkosmosis: look at waikiki. Nearly all those high-rise appartment towers are condos. That's why there's such a high percentage in Hawaii. That and all the visitor accomodations along the coast of the other islands. In other words: 2-3 story condo resorts owned by individuals and managed by a hotel company. Personally, I don't like the condo fees either, too much uncertainty, and too many stories about incapable boards. But it works out for a lot of people, and in some places, there is no other option.
Here is an example I just pulled off a listing for a condo in Hawaii.
"Maintenance Fee Includes: Insurance, Cable TV, Electricity, Water, Sewer, Trash, Landscaping and Maintenance of all common areas.
Trust me that's not typical. I've looked at a lot of condos and townhouses when I was searching for a place to buy about 10 years ago. Usually electricity and cable isn't included. Cable's about $50/month and electricity's anywhere from $80 to $150 or more for a 1 bedroom condo.
Looks like it's starting to go down again (if it's now $521,500), but still quite high.
One thing about Oahu though, is it seems even if the market goes down on the Mainland, it just means that Asia investors often times get into the market.
That graph seems familiar. I'm lucky I bought my condo when the market almost bottomed out. I've heard that around 1990 the Oahu housing market was experiencing another peak (though prices weren't as high as they are now). This was partially because of Japanese investors scooping up homes in Hawaii. Then the Japanese economy crashed and so did the Hawaii real estate market.
I'm pretty sure we'll never see prices anywhere near what they were in 2000. I think prices will plateau for a while and of course go up in the long run.
I'm pretty sure we'll never see prices anywhere near what they were in 2000. I think prices will plateau for a while and of course go up in the long run.
That's what I'm thinking as well.
I'm thinking they'll be at a plateau, right up until China becomes a major economic player with a high purchasing power. Than it'll be Chinese investors (as opposed to previous Japanese, and previous Mainland with the easy credit investors).
My Hawaiian wife and I live in the suburbs of Portland, Oregon and own a modest but nice 3-bedroom, 2-bathroom, 1,300-square-foot home on a small lot. According to Zillow, it's currently worth about $185K. To buy its equivalent on Oahu, based on my Zillow searches, would cost upwards of $500K. Going by the rule of thumb that you can afford a house that's roughly 3 times your gross family income, that works out to a combined annual salary of about $170K. How many people earn that kind of money in Hawaii? Only a small percentage, I imagine. I've found some houses on line on Oahu in the $400K range, but they're either really tiny, in bad repair, or in areas my wife says we wouldn't want to live. There are some nice condos in the $300K+ range, but once you add in the maintenance fees, they don't seem any cheaper than houses. We'd love to live on Oahu when my wife retires in a few years, but barring a monetary windfall, it looks to be impossible. The Big Island is more realistic financially.
My Hawaiian wife and I live in the suburbs of Portland, Oregon and own a modest but nice 3-bedroom, 2-bathroom, 1,300-square-foot home on a small lot. According to Zillow, it's currently worth about $185K. To buy its equivalent on Oahu, based on my Zillow searches, would cost upwards of $500K. Going by the rule of thumb that you can afford a house that's roughly 3 times your gross family income, that works out to a combined annual salary of about $170K. How many people earn that kind of money in Hawaii? Only a small percentage, I imagine. I've found some houses on line on Oahu in the $400K range, but they're either really tiny, in bad repair, or in areas my wife says we wouldn't want to live. There are some nice condos in the $300K+ range, but once you add in the maintenance fees, they don't seem any cheaper than houses. We'd love to live on Oahu when my wife retires in a few years, but barring a monetary windfall, it looks to be impossible. The Big Island is more realistic financially.
A friend bought a 1bdrm condo as a vacation property 3 blocks from Waikiki in 2008 for $300,000. They renovated it and things start to add up when you renovate it the way you want it. Here's a pic I took 3 weeks ago, the view from the living room. I love the area , it's 5-10 min walk to everything in Waikiki.
My Hawaiian wife and I live in the suburbs of Portland, Oregon and own a modest but nice 3-bedroom, 2-bathroom, 1,300-square-foot home on a small lot. According to Zillow, it's currently worth about $185K. To buy its equivalent on Oahu, based on my Zillow searches, would cost upwards of $500K. Going by the rule of thumb that you can afford a house that's roughly 3 times your gross family income, that works out to a combined annual salary of about $170K. How many people earn that kind of money in Hawaii? Only a small percentage, I imagine. I've found some houses on line on Oahu in the $400K range, but they're either really tiny, in bad repair, or in areas my wife says we wouldn't want to live. There are some nice condos in the $300K+ range, but once you add in the maintenance fees, they don't seem any cheaper than houses. We'd love to live on Oahu when my wife retires in a few years, but barring a monetary windfall, it looks to be impossible. The Big Island is more realistic financially.
Plenty of places in Oahu in the low $300K range comparable to the place you have - for instance, Mililani is a good example.
Plenty of places in Oahu in the low $300K range comparable to the place you have - for instance, Mililani is a good example.
Those are for condos though, right?
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