Middletown - Towne Mall Redevelopment (Cincinnati, Dayton: 2014, leases, homes)

[SWOH]

California group plans $20M upgrade of Middletown mall - Business Courier

Thoughts on this idea? If you were going to predict its probability of success, what would you estimate the odds to be?

[cali3448893]

Well the West Chester area between Cincy and Dayton is growing in retail, we have a IKEA, Jack N the Box and we are usually the first to get restaurants and retail opening up its doors for the first time in Ohio. Their isnt really anywhere for those people to go and shop at the mall besides the tr-county mall which(not trying to be racist) but the black people only go to the mall so the white people usually don't go their. Please Moderators don't ban me for being racist, which im not.

[woxyroxme]

The Towne Mall needs tenants, the tenants need shoppers to pay the rent.

The only solution is to give steeply discounted rent until Jan 2014 to anyone opening a store so they can have a chance to make a go at it until enough spaces are rented to the point where it will draw people.

[Ohioan58]

Middletown is one big fat briar and cracker ghetto with "people of Wal-Mart", plain and simple. Even when Middletown was prosperous the area was a pit.

HOWEVER.... this region - both Cincy and Dayton - have a rapacious appetite for gobbling up farmland to turn into crappy lifestyle centers. Warren and Butler counties are Sprawlhio, in essence. People around SW Ohio seem to want nothing but to go shop at malls that are in BFE. So the Towne Mall has a chance now, since it is remote and it might be relatively cheap to enhance to modern standards. I wouldn't have thought so 10 years ago but that was before the advent of these ridiculously overbuilt lifestyle centers.

What I'm saying is that I suspect that the right amount of money, the right marketing plan, and the right economic conditions *might* transform the Godforsaken redneck wilds of Rt 122 & Dixie Hwy into another Deerfield, "Greene" or Easton.

After all, South Lebanon meant lower income poor Appalachians, trailers, and KKK rallies, and it has blossomed into an exurb with $350K+ golf course homes. I never, EVER saw that one coming but it did.

I don't see a successful buildup being organic as Woxyroxme indicates. Cincinnati Mills and whatever it is called now went that way and it just sputtered out and died again.

For this kind of growth, the "reborn" mall has to have almost viral appeal as a hot retail center, like the Greene did when it opened. The joint was jam packed from its opening.

I live close to this mall so I hope it takes off.

[SWOH]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

Middletown is one big fat briar and cracker ghetto with "people of Wal-Mart", plain and simple. Even when Middletown was prosperous the area was a pit.

HOWEVER.... this region - both Cincy and Dayton - have a rapacious appetite for gobbling up farmland to turn into crappy lifestyle centers. Warren and Butler counties are Sprawlhio, in essence. People around SW Ohio seem to want nothing but to go shop at malls that are in BFE. So the Towne Mall has a chance now, since it is remote and it might be relatively cheap to enhance to modern standards. I wouldn't have thought so 10 years ago but that was before the advent of these ridiculously overbuilt lifestyle centers.

What I'm saying is that I suspect that the right amount of money, the right marketing plan, and the right economic conditions *might* transform the Godforsaken redneck wilds of Rt 122 & Dixie Hwy into another Deerfield, "Greene" or Easton.

After all, South Lebanon meant lower income poor Appalachians, trailers, and KKK rallies, and it has blossomed into an exurb with $350K+ golf course homes. I never, EVER saw that one coming but it did.

I don't see a successful buildup being organic as Woxyroxme indicates. Cincinnati Mills and whatever it is called now went that way and it just sputtered out and died again.

For this kind of growth, the "reborn" mall has to have almost viral appeal as a hot retail center, like the Greene did when it opened. The joint was jam packed from its opening.

I live close to this mall so I hope it takes off.

That's what I was thinking. The demographics line up well - the easiest location for Daytonnati to grow next would be in the little bit of countryside between Lebanon, Hunter, US 42, and Springboro. All of that traffic will basically be accessing I-75 from 122, right by the mall. That what was making me wonder whether it would be worth it for the new developers to even try and redevelop it for another 5 years or so - or demo parts of it at all.

[Ohioan58]

Originally Posted by OHKID

That's what I was thinking. The demographics line up well - the easiest location for Daytonnati to grow next would be in the little bit of countryside between Lebanon, Hunter, US 42, and Springboro. All of that traffic will basically be accessing I-75 from 122, right by the mall. That what was making me wonder whether it would be worth it for the new developers to even try and redevelop it for another 5 years or so - or demo parts of it at all.

What you posted is quite prescient. The recent relocation of OH-123 from the "center" of Red Lion to a new alignment that meets OH-122 about 3/4 of a mile west of the village, has opened up several hundred acres of land to new development. I read also that some store chain like Walgreens (not specifically Walgreens but some national variety or drug store chain) is looking to seize the opportunity for growth and build a store around there. I think it's only a matter of time before that area becomes cluttered up, too.

[Ohiogirl81]

Originally Posted by Ohioan58

The recent relocation of OH-123 from the "center" of Red Lion to a new alignment that meets OH-122 about 3/4 of a mile west of the village

What?! The funnest intersection in Warren County ... ruined? I always figured if I were to be severely injured in a car wreck (or worse), it would be at that intersection.

[Dayton Sux]

I think Red Lion would have been an opportunity to do something New Urbanist vs generic suburbia,. using that antebellum church as the centerpiece or focal point.

[sparkplug1991]

As a former store manager of a tenant who just left the mall last month i do not see any upside of the mall as is.They have gone through multiple gm since the purchase of the mall and keep making empty promises to the tenants and this is all hurt more by the loss of finish line which just leaves 5 national stores in the mall. the rent of all the tenants does not even cover the electric bill for the facility and they also have many electrical issues so stores will not move in and assume the liability because so much work has to be done. The worse mistake they made was turning down bass pro

[SWOH]

Sounds like a bad situation sparkplug1991.

I can remember not long ago, in 2002, when the mall was very close to having a 100% occupancy rate and underwent a substantial renovation. I guess that was 12 years ago, though, so the time has probably come for a lot of necessary maintenance. I never realized they could have had Bass Pro - is there any way you could obtain some proof that was in the cards? Because that would have been a fascinating turn of events.

I have basically assumed the end goal here would be to land a Burlington Coat Factory somewhere at the mall, whether it was in the former Dillard's site or a new build in the giant parking lot facing OH 122. I'd be willing to bet too that the mall owners were not lying when they said they were very close to signing leases for 4-5 smaller anchor big-box tenants, like Dick's, Marshall's, etc. - it is unfortunate that Target is pulling out of Middletown because that throws a lot of uncertainty into the mix, and probably the big-boxes won't be showing up because of it.

However, a nice end would be if Rural King acquires the Target property. I'm assuming Tractor Supply moved on the Kmart property in Middletown as quickly as it did because it wanted to block Rural King from purchasing the space and the Middletown area market. The realty company owning the old Kmart site probably went hook, line and sinker for the deal, not seeing the potential for their property to be leased by Rural King. Now Big Lots is moving into another portion of the former Kmart, so that should at least strengthen that center, but it left no viable floor space for Rural King to move into the market.... until the Target space opened up.

Securing a Rural King lease at the Target site might be enough to put the Towne Mall redevelopment back on track.... it might be enough to nudge Burlington Coat into signing a lease at the former Dillard's space, and maybe then there will be enough security in the mall to encourage other big boxes to make the move too. But as the economic conditions of the Towne Mall retail corridor stand, this is unlikely...