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Old 04-08-2013, 03:09 PM
 
1,066 posts, read 2,415,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
pipe dream, bro.
Totally gnarly response, bro. It's like, totally YOLO. Bro.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,509 posts, read 9,488,459 times
Reputation: 5621
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksu sucks View Post
Your first mistake: you assume that these things must be provided by the state.

Try again.
I haven't assumed anything. I'm just dealing with what is real at present. I'll be glad to talk about privately owned and operated rail systems, when we have privately owned and operated roads.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,413 posts, read 5,122,775 times
Reputation: 3088
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksu sucks View Post
Your first mistake: you assume that these things must be provided by the state.

Try again.
Of course they must not be, but the people voted for these things, probably because they didn't believe the private sector would or could provide them. That's how America works, we can vote for taxes on ourselves for services that will benefit society. And the great thing about America is that if a majority of Americans stopped believing in those things we could vote against them, or vote for leaders who would oppose them, but as it stands the majority of people believe (in my opinion correctly) that the state generally does a better job of providing those particular services that must be accessible to everyone (and not just those whom it's convenient for, or who can afford them) than the private sector would.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:11 PM
 
1,066 posts, read 2,415,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
Of course they must not be, but the people voted for these things, probably because they didn't believe the private sector would or could provide them. That's how America works, we can vote for taxes on ourselves for services that will benefit society
I must have missed when the ODOT, public schools systems, and every local police and fire department allowed the public to vote on whether or not they should be privatized. Let me know when that vote comes around again.

More importantly, if you allowed the citizens of every state to vote on whether or not the federal government had any power in their respective state, things would not go well for the feds. Perhaps Ohio would want big brother to linger, but there are a number of states which would give uncle Sam the boot in a heart beat.

The moral of the story is that there's a reason governments don't allow you to vote over their existence. Instead, they only allow you vote over who holds power. If they allowed the former, many government entities would be revealed as worthless.
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,509 posts, read 9,488,459 times
Reputation: 5621
We have a representative government. If the people we elect don't do what we want them to do, we vote them out of office. Things like ODOT, public school systems, library systems, etc. were created because we wanted them, and our elected representatives obliged.

--edit--

This is my last post on this subject. Can we get back to talking about rail?
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:09 PM
 
1,066 posts, read 2,415,069 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
I haven't assumed anything. I'm just dealing with what is real at present.
I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksu sucks View Post
If it requires government subsidies to survive, it isn't necessary.
To which you responded:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Schools, libraries, roads, etc. aren't necessary?
Implying that "schools, libraries, roads, etc" must "require government subsidies to survive".

Based on your response, it must be concluded that you did assume that those things require government subsidies to survive. If you meant something else, you weren't clear enough.

If you meant that you would only like to deal with the then and now, then that's fine. We probably should end this discussion though, as it hasn't happened.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,509 posts, read 9,488,459 times
Reputation: 5621
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksu sucks View Post
I said:



To which you responded:



Implying that "schools, libraries, roads, etc" must "require government subsidies to survive".

Based on your response, it must be concluded that you did assume that those things require government subsidies to survive. If you meant something else, you weren't clear enough.

If you meant that you would only like to deal with the then and now, then that's fine. We probably should end this discussion though, as it hasn't happened.
I misinterpreted your post, though I'm not sure I understand your point. Maybe those things don't require government subsidies to survive, and neither does rail. But, because roads are subsidized, rail must be subsidized to be competitive.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:42 PM
 
1,066 posts, read 2,415,069 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
I misinterpreted your post, though I'm not sure I understand your point. Maybe those things don't require government subsidies to survive, and neither does rail. But, because roads are subsidized, rail must be subsidized to be competitive.
Okay, fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
We have a representative government. If the people we elect don't do what we want them to do, we vote them out of office. Things like ODOT, public school systems, library systems, etc. were created because we wanted them, and our elected representatives obliged.
Representative of whom? Who is we? It must not include me, because I've never publicly indicated that I want any of the aforementioned services be offered through the government and I did not vote for any of the poltiicians currently in office.

My point is, be careful with these vague notions of "we" and "us". They often mean nothing.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:45 PM
 
1,066 posts, read 2,415,069 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Can we get back to talking about rail?
Yes.

For starters, I'd be interested in seeing some type of feasibility study done in the past for this sort of thing. I'm sure some organization has looked into the possibility of rail through Ohio. I'd be interested to see what they came up with.

Last edited by Townes Van Zandt; 04-08-2013 at 05:54 PM..
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,052 posts, read 12,436,723 times
Reputation: 10385
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksu sucks View Post
Totally gnarly response, bro. It's like, totally YOLO. Bro.
You mix up your subcultures so much it's quite hilarious. I thought I was a hipster? Nobody says gnarly. Not bros. Maybe like teenage girls say yolo. But it is quite obvious you're pretty salty about your lack of logic on any subject, so I'll let it go, bro.
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