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Well then, you haven't been paying much attention to the cost of HSR in other countries.
You keep assuming that I don't support HSR, but I do.
I realize that people like you are forced to pay for roads. I WANT the gas tax to increase to end the subsidy. I resent forcing people like you to pay for roads. It's a lying sneaky thing to do. I'd be happy to see some toll roads, but that's a topic drift.
Further, I would support European-size gas taxes to fund HSR. I'm just stating that the public won't support it.
Building out a decent rail network would create jobs and ( for the neocons ) bolster national defense.
You are wrong about Euro gas prices. There is a world market price and they pay the same as us. The price they pay at the pump is a reflection of the cost of their trains. It's fair and a better model than ours.
When I lived in the city I used the bus and rode my bike.
I just support honest arguments. HSR is hugely expensive, but worth it. I resent people lying about the cost.
I also don't want to see such a huge push to frack for oil and gas. I'm for saving it. I resent people lying about water risks and fake earthquake risks.
I also resent frack supporters telling us that the US is going to be a net oil exporter. They need to do the math. The only way to achieve energy independence is to tap the largest energy supply we have - the ability to conserve.
Back on topic; a new HSR system would provide other economic benefits as private money develops a new infrastructure around stations.
Such lines should only be funded by fuel taxes. Ticket revenue will only be a fraction. Prices should be set to maximize the use. Gas taxes should be set to eliminate subsidies.
People shouldn't be able to afford to commute in 6000 lb SUVs.
Oh and BTW; there is no comparison between the cost of temporary rerouting of rail vs bus. Saying it's no big deal is a disingenuous lie also.
Just be honest and upfront with the costs and sources of funding. That's all I ask.
I don't even know where to start here. I and me are prevalent words meaning the poster is a self important person.
Why is 'I' so eager for EU type gas taxes/prices? So 'I' can have my own private train? Ride it from end to end everyday at the expense of everyone else? How is EU gas pricing fair and a better model than ours? If it was such a good model we would have invented it.
Gas taxes are going to pay for entire train lines as well as your train rides? That is forced taxation on others. How about we just take yours from your paycheck?
People shouldn't be able to commute in 6000 lb SUVs....where? Name a 6000 lb SUV besides a Hummer. There aren't a lot of those on the road. We live in America, what you think others shouldn't be able to do is of no concern. Would you outlaw Big Gulps and Big Macs? Firearms, too?
Your train rides ain't happening as there are not enough people waiting to go where the tracks are laid. How many people in the country fly on a weekly basis? Not everyone is standing in line to go cross country or even 400 miles for many reasons. We aren't going to see any large scale rail activity until the USA goes full socialism/communist.
How much will it cost? It won't matter and it will be none of our concern. Citizens will work as slaves for the state in whatever capacity they can for a small stipend to buy whatever the state isn't providing them. That includes train rides.
Trains: A 19th century solution for the 21st century.
Don't forget:
1. The United States is a lot more spread out than Europe.
2. Because the United States is a lot more spread out than Europe, the government chose to invest in airports, not trains. Even the smallest podunk county in North Dakota or Montana has an airstrip not too far from virtually everybody.
3. Unless you can do true high speed 200 mph trains, nobody is going to use it. And they won't do true high speed because there is too much geography to cover and not enough money!
4. Who wants to sit on a train with a bunch of stinky strangers for a slow train ride??????? The MegaBus is a lot cheaper!
Hi, I'm armory? This is my first time posting in the Ohio forum and I have a couple of issues with the logic behind this post?
That's always a good place to start. I'm a big fan of introductions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
Why is 'I' so eager for EU type gas taxes/prices? So 'I' can have my own private train? Ride it from end to end everyday at the expense of everyone else? How is EU gas pricing fair and a better model than ours? If it was such a good model we would have invented it.
Probably because this is one thing the EU does in a more logical and fair way than the US?
Just because we are in 'Merica doesn't mean we are always right, or best, etc. on every single nuance of life.
Consider how much YOUR life would be limited if you could no longer afford a car.
Where would you be able to work?
If you can't find a job where you can commute to, you are S!it out of Luck. Employers don't tolerate unreliable people.
Where would you be able to buy food?
Good luck living on convenience store doughnuts. Or worse.
... and so on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
Gas taxes are going to pay for entire train lines as well as your train rides? That is forced taxation on others. How about we just take yours from your paycheck?
I've worked a job in college while not having a car. Over that time, I walked everywhere and paid taxes to the federal, state, and local governments. A good chuck of those tax dollars went to fund road improvements. So...
I (ME) (YOURS TRULY) was forced to pay for YOUR car trips.
In your terms, that was forced taxation on others.
That money I (ME) (YOURS TRULY) worked hard for was forced into YOUR pocket to pay for YOUR road to get YOUR car from Point A to Point B.
To make matters even worse, I and the 300+ million other taxpayers or dependents in this country paid for over half of that road. YOUR gas taxes don't fund it. YOU are living off a government subsidy.
YOU are literally living off of government welfare by depending on your motor vehicle for your lifestyle. Who Pays For Roads? | U.S. PIRG
Don't forget it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
People shouldn't be able to commute in 6000 lb SUVs....where? Name a 6000 lb SUV besides a Hummer. There aren't a lot of those on the road. We live in America, what you think others shouldn't be able to do is of no concern. Would you outlaw Big Gulps and Big Macs? Firearms, too?
Yes and yes.
One of the roles of government is to disable citizens from killing themselves. That is why ambulance, fire, police, etc. are all public services provided by the government.
The government also has a responsibility to warn people about the negative consequences of their actions and keep citizens from harming themselves to the point of becoming a public burden. So those public service costs mentioned earlier can stay as low as possible. I like efficient public services because they cost less money and provide better service. I'm certain you and I share that belief.
To put it simply, big gulps and big macs lead to big people. Big, fat, obese monsters of people who have horrible medical conditions which require expensive medications, emergency room treatments, etc. all on the public dole.
These people should never be allowed to intoxicate themselves to these extremes with this vile product in the first place. A simple solution is forced moderation, as has been done in certain parts of the country which have the forethought to realize a lot of money and lives could be saved in the end by preventing repeated stupid consumer decisions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
Your train rides ain't happening as there are not enough people waiting to go where the tracks are laid. How many people in the country fly on a weekly basis? Not everyone is standing in line to go cross country or even 400 miles for many reasons. We aren't going to see any large scale rail activity until the USA goes full socialism/communist.
If I had to travel from a city to a city, with both being walkable or having Uber, I would certainly take a train between them because that would allow me to work, read, etc. for the duration of the trip there and back and save wear and tear on my car.
Many others feel the same. As great as it is to drive, I'd rather spend my time more productively if possible. Plus I would be travelling more safely and efficiently, and be more relaxed when I arrive at my destination.
Seems like an easy answer to me - where the tracks are laid only matters insofar as how good the transportation is at the destination, and given the rise of Uber, the answer is good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by armory
How much will it cost? It won't matter and it will be none of our concern. Citizens will work as slaves for the state in whatever capacity they can for a small stipend to buy whatever the state isn't providing them. That includes train rides.
The US is not as dense as Europe. Here is an interesting map:
At minimum, connecting the magenta "dots" with rail, and providing usable service, seems like a no-brainer.
BTW, there is no Megabus service in Youngstown. There is Greyhound, but in my personal experience, they have usually been overcrowded and very late. Since they no longer have to compete with rail service, I guess they don't feel that on-time and comfortable service are necessary.
The question here is "Would you take it?" The answer here is "Yes." I prefer train travel to anything else. But not if I have to catch it at 3:00 in the morning or the schedules are so bad they only run once every Tuesday when the moon is full and the wolves are howling.
Hi, I'm armory? This is my first time posting in the Ohio forum and I have a couple of issues with the logic behind this post?
That's always a good place to start. I'm a big fan of introductions.
Probably because this is one thing the EU does in a more logical and fair way than the US?
Just because we are in 'Merica doesn't mean we are always right, or best, etc. on every single nuance of life.
Consider how much YOUR life would be limited if you could no longer afford a car.
Where would you be able to work?
If you can't find a job where you can commute to, you are S!it out of Luck. Employers don't tolerate unreliable people.
Where would you be able to buy food?
Good luck living on convenience store doughnuts. Or worse.
... and so on.
I've worked a job in college while not having a car. Over that time, I walked everywhere and paid taxes to the federal, state, and local governments. A good chuck of those tax dollars went to fund road improvements. So...
I (ME) (YOURS TRULY) was forced to pay for YOUR car trips.
In your terms, that was forced taxation on others.
That money I (ME) (YOURS TRULY) worked hard for was forced into YOUR pocket to pay for YOUR road to get YOUR car from Point A to Point B.
To make matters even worse, I and the 300+ million other taxpayers or dependents in this country paid for over half of that road. YOUR gas taxes don't fund it. YOU are living off a government subsidy.
YOU are literally living off of government welfare by depending on your motor vehicle for your lifestyle. Who Pays For Roads? | U.S. PIRG
Don't forget it.
Yes and yes.
One of the roles of government is to disable citizens from killing themselves. That is why ambulance, fire, police, etc. are all public services provided by the government.
The government also has a responsibility to warn people about the negative consequences of their actions and keep citizens from harming themselves to the point of becoming a public burden. So those public service costs mentioned earlier can stay as low as possible. I like efficient public services because they cost less money and provide better service. I'm certain you and I share that belief.
To put it simply, big gulps and big macs lead to big people. Big, fat, obese monsters of people who have horrible medical conditions which require expensive medications, emergency room treatments, etc. all on the public dole.
These people should never be allowed to intoxicate themselves to these extremes with this vile product in the first place. A simple solution is forced moderation, as has been done in certain parts of the country which have the forethought to realize a lot of money and lives could be saved in the end by preventing repeated stupid consumer decisions.
If I had to travel from a city to a city, with both being walkable or having Uber, I would certainly take a train between them because that would allow me to work, read, etc. for the duration of the trip there and back and save wear and tear on my car.
Many others feel the same. As great as it is to drive, I'd rather spend my time more productively if possible. Plus I would be travelling more safely and efficiently, and be more relaxed when I arrive at my destination.
Seems like an easy answer to me - where the tracks are laid only matters insofar as how good the transportation is at the destination, and given the rise of Uber, the answer is good.
Slavery was abolished in the US in 1865
So you you want more " nanny state" government? You like others telling you what you can or cannot do huh?
OK, let's outlaw video games because they make kids lazy and fat. Let's outlaw reality shows and other non- educational programming because they dumb down america. Like these ideas??
If the government really gave a rats azz about our health, alcohol would be prohibited. Do you like that?
What about people take personal responsibility for their own actions instead?
What if the "nanny state" government targets something you enjoy?
Trains: A 19th century solution for the 21st century.
Don't forget:
1. The United States is a lot more spread out than Europe.
2. Because the United States is a lot more spread out than Europe, the government chose to invest in airports, not trains. Even the smallest podunk county in North Dakota or Montana has an airstrip not too far from virtually everybody.
3. Unless you can do true high speed 200 mph trains, nobody is going to use it. And they won't do true high speed because there is too much geography to cover and not enough money!
4. Who wants to sit on a train with a bunch of stinky strangers for a slow train ride??????? The MegaBus is a lot cheaper!
Cars are a 19th century technology. Neither cars nor trains are in their 19th century technological form.
1. Trains can travel distances much faster than cars, so if being spread out is an issue, then cars are actually inferior to trains.
2. So cars are inferior to both trains AND planes as far as covering the distances of the US, by your own admittance.
Also, in reference to government investment, aren't airlines private, for-profit businesses? Why is the government subsidizing private enterprise like air travel, but trains are not allowed to have any subsidization regardless of whether or not they are run by private or public interests?
Further, planes don't actually go everywhere. They have the same supposed limitations as trains in that, once you reach your destination, you need to find another means of travel. This has been repeatedly brought up as a negative against rail travel, but never against air. Wonder why.
3. People use the NEC rail, and it doesn't go even close to 200mph, mostly because it's never gotten the investment dollars for that upgrade. Yet still, it is used, the same as local light rail and other passenger rail is used. And I really don't get your point about distance again. They won't build HSR because to do so will cover the distances in the US? That makes absolutely no sense, especially when you just argued that that's why the government invested in air travel.
4. Why do you think passenger rail is the same as riding in a subway car at rush hour? The conditions of riding actual rail is pretty much the same as Megabus... actually probably much better because there are service cars, wifi, etc. Megabus is cheaper... for a reason.
Still at a loss to figure out why there should be a train to Columbus.
Looking at the working population we have state government (no one outside ohio cares about ohio government), OSU (OK, maybe on game day) and lastly, cheap labor for places like Chase, AEP, Nationwide etc.
There is no business reason to go to Columbus or cultural reason to go to Columbus.
So no funding for a train.
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