Ohio Geologists Link Local Earthquakes Directly to Fracking (Dayton, Carroll: 2014, college)

[Natural510]

Ohio geologists link local earthquakes directly to fracking | Al Jazeera America

The debate over economic benefit versus environmental impact continues.

[IDtheftV]

If it's really possible to trigger plate movements by fracking, that's a good thing.

The longer one has to wait for an earthquake, the bigger the quake.

If it really works, we should start fracking the San Andreas fault ASAP.

I don't believe there is any causation. The force involved in fracking and the force involved in even the smallest of earthquakes is so disparate that any geologist claiming a connection is just trolling for dough.

[Catdancer]

Originally Posted by IDtheftV

If it's really possible to trigger plate movements by fracking, that's a good thing.

The longer one has to wait for an earthquake, the bigger the quake.

If it really works, we should start fracking the San Andreas fault ASAP.

I don't believe there is any causation. The force involved in fracking and the force involved in even the smallest of earthquakes is so disparate that any geologist claiming a connection is just trolling for dough.

Hey.......That's a great idea. Might as well slide the California coast into the ocean now, why bother waiting to see if it'll last a few more hundred years. That'll save millions for the building industry....not having to attempt to earthquake proof new buildings. Maybe we should start a program to frack every square mile of the country and thereby avoid costly future repairs. While we're at it, let's frack areas of intensive geothermal activity. If the program's successful maybe we could even get those pesky dormant volcanoes to go off.

Stupid geologists....trying to use science in a lame attempt to help the Earth when everybody knows it's not important. What is important is that we squeeze every drop of fossil fuel from the planet in any way possible.

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by Catdancer

Hey.......That's a great idea. Might as well slide the California coast into the ocean now, .... [ deletia ] ...

FYI, the California coast is NOT siding into the ocean.

People that write stuff like that are simply demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge about what is happening there.

What part about the statement :

"The longer one has to wait for an earthquake, the bigger the quake." don't you get?

In 1906, the plates moved about 20 feet ( give or take ) in just under 1 minute.

On average, there is a great quake around there every 60 years. It's now been over 100 years.

If you could inch the plates along at a few inches every month until there was no longer any stress between the Pacific Plate and the North American Plate you would save a lot of people heartache.

Originally Posted by Catdancer

... why bother waiting to see if it'll last a few more hundred years. ...

The next big one is going to happen much sooner than "a few more hundred years." We better get fracking now.

Unfortunately, I don't think setting off a nuclear blast at the plate boundaries would move them. The energy of such a bomb is miniscule next to an event like the 1906 quake.

Originally Posted by Catdancer

... Maybe we should start a program to frack every square mile of the country and thereby avoid costly future repairs. ...

What are you writing about?

Originally Posted by Catdancer

... While we're at it, let's frack areas of intensive geothermal activity. If the program's successful maybe we could even get those pesky dormant volcanoes to go off. ...

... and the point would be?

Way to have an intelligent discussion.

[woxyroxme]

Originally Posted by Catdancer

Stupid geologists....trying to use science in a lame attempt to help the Earth when everybody knows it's not important. What is important is that we squeeze every drop of fossil fuel from the planet in any way possible.

Of course, how do you expect the suburbanites to heat their McMansions and commute an hour each way to work in a gas guzzling SUV. Society needs to get it's priorities straight, we can't expect these poor people to scale back their lifestyles for the environment, that would be ridiculous.

[Catdancer]

Originally Posted by IDtheftV

FYI, the California coast is NOT siding into the ocean.

People that write stuff like that are simply demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge about what is happening there.

What part about the statement :

"The longer one has to wait for an earthquake, the bigger the quake." don't you get?

In 1906, the plates moved about 20 feet ( give or take ) in just under 1 minute.

On average, there is a great quake around there every 60 years. It's now been over 100 years.

If you could inch the plates along at a few inches every month until there was no longer any stress between the Pacific Plate and the North American Plate you would save a lot of people heartache.

The next big one is going to happen much sooner than "a few more hundred years." We better get fracking now.

Unfortunately, I don't think setting off a nuclear blast at the plate boundaries would move them. The energy of such a bomb is miniscule next to an event like the 1906 quake.
What are you writing about?
... and the point would be?

Way to have an intelligent discussion.

The point is that fracking has pretty much been proven to be bad for the environment. So much so that the CEO of Exxon joined a a lawsuit to ban fracking near his Texas ranch. Being dismissive of ANY dangers to the planet from fracking is foolish.

I had no idea that you intended that post as an introduction to serious discourse, it sounded like another "screw the environmental damage" comment offered by the pro frackers. Since you seem serious about your point, let's treat it that way.

Not all earthquake activity is directly due to plate movement. Part of Southwestern Ohio is included in the New Madrid seismic zone. This is not a meeting of plates but rather a type of failed rift. Without getting into some serious geology, we can call this a weak point in the Earth's crust. In late December of 1811 and in January/February 1812 this zone was the site of 3 fairly strong earthquakes centered on New Madrid, Missouri. Though we didn't have seismic measuring equipment back then current day estimates put the quake's power between 7.1 and as high as 8.8 on the Richter Scale. By comparison, the San Francisco of 1906 was about a 7.8.....and it was a single quake to boot. Back then, that area of Missouri was fairly underpopulated. 3 quakes, that close together, of that magnitude, would no doubt cause damage well into the hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars and result in an unimaginable loss of life. Back then it wiped out the town of New Madrid and even caused the Mississippi to run North for a short while. Surviving accounts of the event are pretty terrifying. The Great Midwest Earthquake of 1811 | Science | Smithsonian

Mucking about with all things planet related are best left to Mother Earth herself. Intentionally causing earthquakes would be a very bad idea, we have no idea of the repercussions of such a dangerous activity. Even when imagining plate movement, we would be dealing with pressures that we can barely understand.

I don't think that it's being too alarmist to make companies refrain from an activity that could, even if it's an almost infinitesimal chance, destroy Middle America. This New Madrid seismic area will most likely go one day all on its own, I see no reason to tempt fate nor hasten disaster. We've already done enough damage to the planet in our search for fossil fuel.

[IDtheftV]

Originally Posted by Catdancer

The point is that fracking has pretty much been proven to be bad for the environment.

No it hasn't. A well that punches down 5,000 ft and then gets fracked isn't any different than a traditional vertical well to the environment.

Originally Posted by Catdancer

So much so that the CEO of Exxon joined a a lawsuit to ban fracking near his Texas ranch.

He's not suing over fracking, he's suing over a water tower.

Originally Posted by Catdancer

Being dismissive of ANY dangers to the planet from fracking is foolish.

In any case, it isn't the fracking that is being blamed for the earthquakes, it's the by-products that are injected into the earth later.

Originally Posted by Catdancer

Not all earthquake activity is directly due to plate movement. Part of Southwestern Ohio is included in the New Madrid seismic zone. This is not a meeting of plates but rather a type of failed rift.

The New Madrid quake of 1811-1812 was most certainly due to internal pressure from the squeezing of the N American plate between the Mid-Atlantic Rift and the Pacific Plate.

Yup, Ohio is earthquake country. I've felt four and the biggest one I ever felt was in Dayton. The other three were in CA.

Also much of what passes as "earthquakes" in OH is simply the crust rebounding from all the weight of ice that used to press down on the state.

If wastewater injection could cause rebound, then who cares? The chances that pumping a million gallons of water is making a difference to something that was compressed by trillions of tons of ice, is nil.

Originally Posted by Catdancer

I don't think that it's being too alarmist to make companies refrain from an activity that could, even if it's an almost infinitesimal chance, destroy Middle America. This New Madrid seismic area will most likely go one day all on its own, I see no reason to tempt fate nor hasten disaster. We've already done enough damage to the planet in our search for fossil fuel.

Whenever the next N.M. quake comes, it will be a more severe event as time goes by.

I don't think that it's being too alarmist to allow companies to participate in an activity that could, even if it's an almost infinitesimal chance, reduce the severity of the next quake in Middle America.

For what it's worth, people, in the end, don't care what it takes to get energy into their hands. Most people consider gasoline at $2/gallon to be a rip-off and a conspiracy. As far as I'm concerned, they can slap a $1/gallon increase in the gasoline tax tomorrow (*) and keep increasing it $1/year until the US stops importing any petroleum. The last time gas got to $4/gallon, bus ridership increased by quite a bit. I don't have any sympathy for someone whining about their $80 fill-up.

(*) using the money to improve the roads and bridges and fix the potholes ...

Most of the drilling in OH produces NG and that can be used as a transportation fuel - further reducing imports of oil.

The US is the only significant emitter of carbon in the world that has consistently reduced our carbon emissions year-after-year and that is partially due to increasing NG production in OH, PA, WV, etc.

When push comes to shove, most people are NOT environmentalists. They WANT fuel to come out of the nozzle at the gasoline station, so if given a choice between fracking and riding the bus, they'll frack every time.

Since fracking for NG in OH has a strong relationship to the availability of gasoline at the pump, it's going to happen.

If I thought fracking/injecting could really cause a continental plate to shift, then I consider that a good thing.

Since I don't think there is a relationship, then the only reason to not want fracking to happen would be because of environmental risks.

Since a well that doesn't get fracked and one that does, doesn't make a difference to the groundwater or above the ground, again, I don't care about fracking - except that it creates good ( blue collar ) jobs that the ivory tower college types distain.

[IDtheftV]

I'm pretty sure the behavior of the steel ribbon in this video is directly related to fracking:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58-atNakMWw

These goats are environmental victims.

[Natural510]

Well, I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to live near one of these fracking sites:

Texas: When fracking comes to town | Al Jazeera America

[ohioaninsc]

Carroll County loves it...the county has been making money hand over fist since the fracking began.