Relocating to Youngstown? (appointed, sale, foreclosed)
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You can't compare Youngstown to Salt Lake City or Orlando or Miami.
It's delusional to compare Youngstown to cities outside of the 50K to 75K population figure.
I might as well compare Poland to San Diego.
You're the one who provided the website with statistics. x,xxx/100k is the same regardless of the population of the city.
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If I'm living in a neighborhood similar to Schenley in Cleveland, Columbus, or Cincy I have a huge bump in my quality of life due to having access to sports, music, entertainment, arts, etc that Ytown can't touch.
While I disagree with your implication that Youngstown doesn't really have sports, music, entertainment, arts, etc, it sounds like you're agreeing with me, in concept; a slightly elevated crime rate is offset by the overall better quality of life.
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There are 299 cities in the U.S. with a population between 50,000 and 74,999. Youngstown is #286 in crime out of those 299.
And many (most?) of those cities are just suburbs.
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Springfield and Canton are actually worse than Ytown so I guess...that's good??? I'm not very familiar with those two cities. They may have parts of their city where crime is average or below.
I don't know much about Springfield, either. But I don't believe either city has a reputation for crime, like Youngstown does. When people ask about moving to Canton, they are usually just told what neighborhoods to avoid, and aren't given the hysterics about avoiding the whole city if they value their lives.
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In any event, holding up Kirkmere as Ytown's best neighborhood with a crime index much higher than the national average is pretty absurd.
Kirkmere is not Youngstown's best neighborhood, IMO. It is Youngstown's safest, and most suburban-like.
You're the one who provided the website with statistics. x,xxx/100k is the same regardless of the population of the city.
While I disagree with your implication that Youngstown doesn't really have sports, music, entertainment, arts, etc, it sounds like you're agreeing with me, in concept; a slightly elevated crime rate is offset by the overall better quality of life.
And many (most?) of those cities are just suburbs.
I don't know much about Springfield, either. But I don't believe either city has a reputation for crime, like Youngstown does. When people ask about moving to Canton, they are usually just told what neighborhoods to avoid, and aren't given the hysterics about avoiding the whole city if they value their lives.
Kirkmere is not Youngstown's best neighborhood, IMO. It is Youngstown's safest, and most suburban-like.
Now you're being obtuse on the population comparisons. Yes, the per 100K does determine a uniform standard so all cities can be compared but an honest debate looks at cities of similar sizes in population. Youngstown is a dangerous city per 100K as well as in comparison to its peers.
I didn't say Youngstown doesn't have sports, arts, entertainment, etc. It just doesn't match Cle/Col/Cin. Of course it wouldn't. Those cities are much larger than Youngstown.
If I'm going to live in a neighborhood with a crime rate 2X the national average I'd pick Cleveland or Pittsburgh. I've actually done this in my lifetime living in both cities.
Everything Ytown has to offer can be accessed by the burbs in a short drive. Housing prices are much much higher in the burbs vs. Ytown but still awesome for the national average. Rental prices aren't that much more out in the burbs either.
Yes, an elevated crime rate can be offset by quality of life but the problem is you don't understand that
* Youngstown has an extremely high crime rate that isn't offset by the positives. That's what makes living in places like Pittsburgh or Cleveland a little more tolerable. The elevated crime rate isn't as high and the entertainment is vastly superior.
You also don't get that living in Poland or North Lima is sooooo much more convenient in terms of access to Ytown than the burbs of a Cleveland or Pittsburgh are to those respective cities.
Again, there is no reason to live in the city limits. Horrible schools, rampant crime, terrible roads, etc. Anything they have going on at Covelli, YSU, or the Butler is freakishly easy to get to from the burbs. Ytown's freeway system is actually a huge plus. Getting in and out is very easy.
I've told you this before: I grew up in Ytown on the south side in the ghetto. It is what is. You can't plant a few community gardens, rehab a few houses, and build a few prisons to fix a place that was part of a historic decimation. Education, poverty, and jobs have to be addressed. Most of Ytown's "successes" in the last 10-15 years have been isolated to a few beneficiaries or what I would deem "supplemental" (Infocision, the prisons, YSU-Downtown revitalization). It's obviously a national problem but replacing family-supporting jobs with lower wage/lower skilled jobs isn't a starting point...it should be the side dish to the main course.
Activists think that anyone who does not agree with them are just being negative and should be shouted down.
Actually, ghetto is a common word that people outside of the area associate with Youngstown.
Why does anyone post here? Activism requires getting out from behind the keyboard.
Here's the issue:
The (probably) younger people who are fighting with us over our negative opinions possibly are used to seeing Y-Town and Warren in their current postindustrial condition, thrashed, burned out, and trashed, so it doesn't shock and disgust them as much as it does me. Me, I am NOT ghetto, and I don't want to live among ghetto people. My parents had friends who lived on Glendale pre-'60s when it was a nice street. They remember when uptown/south side / Market Street was still alive, and they shopped there and had cars repaired there. They remember when the WORST thing you'd encounter on a trip to Y-Town was the zoot suiters who stood on street corners twirling their gold chains. Routes 62, 224, 422 between PA and OH and going into Y-Town were not desolate abandoned stretches of potholed pavement, taking one through some very questionable neighborhoods. They were major thoroughfares, lined with thriving businesses and well-kept neighborhoods. The city wasn't pockmarked by vacant lots. It wasn't decimated by savages, yet.
As I said earlier, some people like living in Youngstown, because it suits them. It would not suit me. And a large part of that is that I can remember Shenango and Mahoning Valleys when they were prosperous, people had steady and steadily-increasing incomes, and each generation was schooled to move up into more cerebral occupations and do better than their parents.
To me, and a lot of other people who are old enough to remember the region when it was a NICE, PRETTY, THRIVING, PROSPEROUS, SAFE area full of well-heeled and law-abiding people, Shenango & Mahoning Valleys look too far gone. And until and unless the towns find a way to curtail the criminal element and replace the Welfares with prosperous wage-earners, I don't see any reason for middle class and above to live there. If I need a, what was it? a 10,000 mile stare? just to walk through my town, I'd definitely say I'm living in the wrong town.
Here's the issue:
The (probably) younger people who are fighting with us over our negative opinions possibly are used to seeing Y-Town and Warren in their current postindustrial condition, thrashed, burned out, and trashed, so it doesn't shock and disgust them as much as it does me. Me, I am NOT ghetto, and I don't want to live among ghetto people. My parents had friends who lived on Glendale pre-'60s when it was a nice street. They remember when uptown/south side / Market Street was still alive, and they shopped there and had cars repaired there. They remember when the WORST thing you'd encounter on a trip to Y-Town was the zoot suiters who stood on street corners twirling their gold chains. Routes 62, 224, 422 between PA and OH and going into Y-Town were not desolate abandoned stretches of potholed pavement, taking one through some very questionable neighborhoods. They were major thoroughfares, lined with thriving businesses and well-kept neighborhoods. The city wasn't pockmarked by vacant lots. It wasn't decimated by savages, yet.
As I said earlier, some people like living in Youngstown, because it suits them. It would not suit me. And a large part of that is that I can remember Shenango and Mahoning Valleys when they were prosperous, people had steady and steadily-increasing incomes, and each generation was schooled to move up into more cerebral occupations and do better than their parents.
To me, and a lot of other people who are old enough to remember the region when it was a NICE, PRETTY, THRIVING, PROSPEROUS, SAFE area full of well-heeled and law-abiding people, Shenango & Mahoning Valleys look too far gone. And until and unless the towns find a way to curtail the criminal element and replace the Welfares with prosperous wage-earners, I don't see any reason for middle class and above to live there. If I need a, what was it? a 10,000 mile stare? just to walk through my town, I'd definitely say I'm living in the wrong town.
I don't mean to sound disagreeable, but I don't think it's necessarily an age thing. (though you're right that many of us don't remember a pre-deindustrialized Youngstown) I'm 37, and my "pro-Yo" friends vary widely in age. I know some of them are old enough to remember the old Youngstown/Mahoning Valley.
Maybe it's a personality trait? Some people look at an old house, or old car, or old piece of furniture, etc. and say: "that's too far gone to save, I'll just throw it away." Others may look at the same thing, and see something worth saving.
It is what is. You can't plant a few community gardens, rehab a few houses, and build a few prisons to fix a place that was part of a historic decimation. Education, poverty, and jobs have to be addressed.
Yes. Unfortunately, local government is ineffective at dealing with these larger issues because they need their piece of the pie. Granted, these issues also need State and Federal assistance at well. That does not mean the residents should just be OK with the local Democrats.
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The Pro-Yo solution is just to buy a hunky platter at Rip's in Struthers, eat breakfast at Golden Dawn, or cut someone else's lawn. And they want to be taken seriously.
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Originally Posted by No_Recess
I've lived in 4 states from coast to coast. When people ask me where I'm from I prepare for the look of shock on their faces. They always ask if the reputation is true. All I do is shake my head in the affirmative and say "Hey, what can ya do?"
There is nothing that can be done about where one's parents decided to raise their children.
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Reputations are earned. It will take a lot of work to undue decades of accepted criminal activity from Traficant to the mob and from Bloods and Crips to the Mayor.
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Originally Posted by No_Recess
* Youngstown has an extremely high crime rate that isn't offset by the positives.
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Originally Posted by No_Recess
there is no reason to live in the city limits. Horrible schools, rampant crime, terrible roads, etc. Anything they have going on at Covelli, YSU, or the Butler is freakishly easy to get to from the burbs.
True. True.
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Originally Posted by JR_C
I don't mean to sound disagreeable, but I don't think it's necessarily an age thing. (though you're right that many of us don't remember a pre-deindustrialized Youngstown) I'm 37, and my "pro-Yo" friends vary widely in age. I know some of them are old enough to remember the old Youngstown/Mahoning Valley.
I agree that it is not strictly an age thing either. The Pro-Yo crew is a motley collection of natives who want to play activist (usually before moving to a larger city), natives who left for a larger city but failed for whatever reason and returned so that they can be the only ____ in a declining town, and outsiders who could not resemble large fish in their original ponds such as Canton and Wilkes-Barre.
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The problem was never that the "movement" has a positive attitude; indeed, the problem is that a positive attitude is the only thing that Pro-Yoers offer.
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Originally Posted by JR_C
Some people look at an old house, or old car, or old piece of furniture, etc. and say: "that's too far gone to save, I'll just throw it away." Others may look at the same thing, and see something worth saving.
Well, get to work on those projects. Just talking about how great the rusted out Oldsmobile used to run, or how one day you just know how great it will be to sit in a chair with four legs will be does not actually change anything. In the real world, dreams require actual work to happen.
Well, get to work on those projects. Just talking about how great the rusted out Oldsmobile used to run, or how one day you just know how great it will be to sit in a chair with four legs will be does not actually change anything. In the real world, dreams require actual work to happen.
Um, off the top of my head, I can think of at least a half dozen other renovations of historic homes taking place, within a couple blocks of my house. And, that's ignoring the homes that have already been restored over the past 10-15 years, in the Wick Park neighborhood. Then, on the south side, there's all the work being done in the Idora Neighborhood, and the Youngstown Inner City Garden. On the west side, the Rocky Ridge Neighborhood Assn. just finished building their sugar house for making their own maple syrup, and members of the Garden District Neighborhood Assn. are finishing up their garden camp; a series of activities for neighborhood kids to learn about gardening, cooking, conservation, etc.
So, in your mind, what kind of work is "actual" work?
Um, off the top of my head, I can think of at least a half dozen other renovations of historic homes taking place, within a couple blocks of my house. And, that's ignoring the homes that have already been restored over the past 10-15 years, in the Wick Park neighborhood. Then, on the south side, there's all the work being done in the Idora Neighborhood, and the Youngstown Inner City Garden. On the west side, the Rocky Ridge Neighborhood Assn. just finished building their sugar house for making their own maple syrup, and members of the Garden District Neighborhood Assn. are finishing up their garden camp; a series of activities for neighborhood kids to learn about gardening, cooking, conservation, etc.
So, in your mind, what kind of work is "actual" work?
Poverty, education, and jobs. Anything else is lipstick on a pig.
Of the roughly 5,500 kids attending Ytown public schools (would be about 10,200 if there was no open enrollment in the burbs and minus the Catholic/Charter Schools) how many can go thru K-12 in a stable home/neighborhood without starving/being traumatized, get a decent education, squeeze out a Bachelors at YSU, get a "decent" paying job, and then to top it off...buy a house in the city, get hitched, and have kids to repeat the process?
Poverty, education, and jobs. Anything else is lipstick on a pig.
Of the roughly 5,500 kids attending Ytown public schools (would be about 10,200 if there was no open enrollment in the burbs and minus the Catholic/Charter Schools) how many can go thru K-12 in a stable home/neighborhood without starving/being traumatized, get a decent education, squeeze out a Bachelors at YSU, get a "decent" paying job, and then to top it off...buy a house in the city, get hitched, and have kids to repeat the process?
The high school, housed in Fedor Hall on the YSU campus, earned four A grades and one B grade on the recently released and newly developed Ohio School Report Cards.
That puts YEC in some pretty elite company. Only seven other high schools in Mahoning, Trumbull and Columbiana counties earned at least four A grades on the report cards – Canfield, Poland, South Range, Western Reserve, Champion, Maplewood and McDonald.
...
Since the first graduating class in 2008, 44 YEC students have earned associate’s degrees, and 11 have gone on to earn YSU bachelor’s degrees. More than half of the 47 students in the 2013 graduating class earned 50 college credits or more, an achievement that Howell called “truly impressive.”
YEC isn't exclusive to students in the YSD. The 2014 class president is from Campbell.
The first graduating class was in 2008. Anywhere from 40 to 50 kids graduate per year.
45 grads X 6 years (your article is from 9/13) = roughly 270 kids.
Of those 270 kids only 44 have an associates degree. Grant it, some majors only offer bachelors but that's still no help. Only 11 of roughly 270 YEC grads (2008-2013) have a bachelors.
There's no reason not to finish your bachelors within 3 years of graduation from YEC. They already got you up to 80 credits.
So let's just use the classes of 2008, 2009, and 2010 to be very generous.
3 X 45 kids = 135
11 of 135 finished up a bachelors????
My two college degrees tell me that's 8%.
Hell, that's slightly under the 10% to 13% of Ytown residents with a bachelors.
In short, Bill Gates can throw his money around all he wants to make the stats look good (cuz 98% h.s. grad rate and college credits locked up is good...I admit that) but when these kids are turned loose they aren't completing the bachelors.
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