Which of the three C's do you think will be the most dominant power in all of Ohio by 2050? (Columbus: rich, rank)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by costello_musicman

It's almost mind-boggling the night and day difference of Downtown Cleveland from 5 years ago. The amount of new residential, entertainment, and infrastructuon/transportation added has created such a strong core for the future.

I'm most excited about "The 9"... Adding a full service grocery store, Autograph Marriott Collection Metropolitan hotel, 100's of new apartments, and elevated dining... all to the city main intersection -- E.9th and Euclid.

Home - The 9 Cleveland

Agreed. The future looks excellent for downtown. I hope to see development north on E 9th, E 12th streets and general northward development from Euclid Avenue east of 9-12 streets.

Transportation development would include running the Blue/Green lines through downtown, even over to Ohio City. A supplemental streetcar would work as well over to OC even out to 65th or 117th Street, hell take into Lakewood. How about using the tracks under the Detroit-Superior Bridge with a nice complementary green walk and bike path?

Mall C coming out of the convention center could use some type of attraction to pull over from leaving the CC, then over to the lakefront. Not sure what it could or should be, something like Bryant Park or Rittenhouse Square.

[Kamms]

The OP includes the CSA's of the 3 Cs. What is the current size of CIN CSA? COL CSA?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Virtually the same size as their respective MSAs. The stat is almost meaningless when comparing them to Cleveland's. The CSA is the correct comparison. The size of the CSA is also why the Cleveland TV/Media market is in the nation's top 20 while neither Columbus nor Cincy are even in the top 30. It's also why Cleveland has 3 major sports teams.

Top 100 Television Markets - Station Index

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_ce...tistical_areas

[unusualfire]

^ Not true. Washington-Baltimore are separate media markets Same with San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose and Boston-Providence. They are all CSA's, but separate media markets.

[Cleveland_Collector]

First of all, you're wrong about SF-Oakland-SJ (#6 on the media market list). Also, adding Providence to Boston would have limited impact (Boston is #7, Providence is #64).

And, furthermore, so what? They are all also in very densely populated, coastal areas. We're talking about 3 cities in Ohio where the dynamic is supposedly common. At the end of the argument, Cleveland's CSA and media market are much larger than either of the other 2 Cs. The evidence is based in fact and not debatable.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Virtually the same size as their respective MSAs. The stat is almost meaningless when comparing them to Cleveland's. The CSA is the correct comparison. The size of the CSA is also why the Cleveland TV/Media market is in the nation's top 20 while neither Columbus nor Cincy are even in the top 30. It's also why Cleveland has 3 major sports teams.

Top 100 Television Markets - Station Index

Ohio statistical areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

CSAs and media markets are more about regional connections and less about core cities or even metros. Any larger and you might as well be talking about the entire state. I don't find CSAs to be particularly useful in determining anything.

Cleveland has 3 major sports teams for a reason, and it's not because of the media market size.

Cleveland Browns: 1945
Cleveland National Population Rank 1940: #6 And 1950: #7

Cleveland Indians: 1900
Cleveland National Population Rank 1900: #7

Cleveland Cavaliers: 1970
Cleveland National Population Rank 1970: #10

Cleveland gained all of its major teams during a time when it was a top 10 largest city in the US, and at times when team expansions were still taking place. It would be extremely unlikely to have gained any of them in recent decades.

[unusualfire]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

First of all, you're wrong about SF-Oakland-SJ (#6 on the media market list). Also, adding Providence to Boston would have limited impact (Boston is #7, Providence is #64).

And, furthermore, so what? They are all also in very densely populated, coastal areas. We're talking about 3 cities in Ohio where the dynamic is supposedly common. At the end of the argument, Cleveland's CSA and media market are much larger than either of the other 2 Cs. The evidence is based in fact and not debatable.

Miami is one MSA but has separate media markets. What i'm saying is you can't compare certain aspects of one CSA to another CSA. Too many changing scenarios and demographics. Some DMA's take up almost the whole state. Eg. Salt lake city, Indianapolis. Why don't they have 3 teams?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

CSAs and media markets are more about regional connections and less about core cities or even metros. Any larger and you might as well be talking about the entire state. I don't find CSAs to be particularly useful in determining anything.

Cleveland has 3 major sports teams for a reason, and it's not because of the media market size.

Cleveland Browns: 1945
Cleveland National Population Rank 1940: #6 And 1950: #7

Cleveland Indians: 1900
Cleveland National Population Rank 1900: #7

Cleveland Cavaliers: 1970
Cleveland National Population Rank 1970: #10

Cleveland gained all of its major teams during a time when it was a top 10 largest city in the US, and at times when team expansions were still taking place. It would be extremely unlikely to have gained any of them in recent decades.

Ummm... perhaps you missed the period in the late 90's where the NFL essentially bent over backwards to put a team back in the Cleveland market almost immediately after that idiot moved the team to Baltimore? They even made him give up the name, colors and history. But no, it had nothing to do with the market or its size. The NFL is big on charity and cares nothing about a town's media market or population.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

Miami is one MSA but has separate media markets. What i'm saying is you can't compare certain aspects of one CSA to another CSA. Too many changing scenarios and demographics. Some DMA's take up almost the whole state. Eg. Salt lake city, Indianapolis. Why don't they have 3 teams?

Well, we can also delve into the concept of core density, if you'd like. But, in all likelihood, you'd insist on cherry picking certain stats to fit a ridiculous series of arguments. The simple facts are that Cleveland has the media market rank, CSA rank, and population density rank to support it. Cincy and CBus (and Indy) don't.

Also, how do you figure that Miami has separate markets? The list I provided encapsulates both Miami-Dade and Ft. Lauderdale. As with the previous example, W. Palm ranks very low. They rank 1 above Cleveland and support 4 major sports teams. This is not a coincidence.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Ummm... perhaps you missed the period in the late 90's where the NFL essentially bent over backwards to put a team back in the Cleveland market almost immediately after that idiot moved the team to Baltimore? They even made him give up the name, colors and history. But no, it had nothing to do with the market or its size. The NFL is big on charity and cares nothing about a town's media market or population.

You think that's the same thing? Okay...