Which of the three C's do you think will be the most dominant power in all of Ohio by 2050? (Columbus: high school, moving)

[unusualfire]

I think we need to end this fight. Most of us will not be alive in 2050.

[immersedincincy]

Originally Posted by unusualfire

I think we need to end this fight. Most of us will not be alive in 2050.

Ok

[1watertiger]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Well, one or the other was an expansion team. Where one existed, two were created.



Well, first off, DC has the Redskins. Sacramento is small (by CA standards) and situated quite close (less than 50 miles from outer rings, probably less than 30 in some places) to the SF Bay area where 2 franchises already reside. Orlando and Tampa, same difference. The only real anomaly is LA (which happens to have 5 other pro teams). Within 5 years, they will have an NFL team relocate there. It won't be the Browns.


See above.


Again, another anomaly where the team was essentially absconded with. It's a similar situation as with Cleveland... yet, the NFL responded as it knew losing that franchise and fanbase of 5+ million would be a huge blow to their brand.



Well, your figures are mostly skewed severely or flat out wrong (as pointed out above). Cleveland's media market is also growing and has kept reasonable pace for at least the past decade.



Your own numbers show that CBus has annexed a substantial amount of land during each decade and that it's largest numeric gains in population occurred when it annexed the most land. C'mon man, get over it. Columbus' major growth happened during that time.



It's quite simple really: Columbus gets to count the increase in population for which in Cleveland is known as Westlake, Avon, Broadview Hts., etc.



Columbus has largely already done it. All Cleveland would have to do is annex maybe 6-8 suburbs (which won't happen any time soon).



I've already demonstrated how that is clearly not the case. All you really have to do is compare the main county population and density. But, if you want to compare 12 on 12, go right ahead.



12 counties is a very "compact" metro? LOL. It doesn't even beat the ridiculously small, 5 county area that Cleveland is allowed to have by the idiotic pencil pushers who draw this stuff up.



They've never drawn well and are constantly in the discussion of contraction. Population and market size may not be the complete reason, but it has very much to do with it. It always does. The bigger the market, the better the media revenue.

Exactly.. I don't understand why he doesn't accept cbus is a small market. 12 counties and your still third in population of the 3c's ?? compared to 5 counties counted in Cleveland metro?? And for the record my Columbus friends think a lot of our suburbs are cleveland.(shaker,Garfield, parma, etc. Etc) and they comment how our Cleveland suburbs have more character and much more urban than cbus proper.. And these are comments from die hard OSU/Columbus residents.. Ps- and they were totally blown away with what was happening in DT Cleveland and Edgewater Thurs parties. .

[American Luxury]

Has anyone ever tried to figure out what Cincinnati and Cleveland's population would be if they had the same land area as Columbus?

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

What are you talking about? Until the last season or so, they had exactly 1 winning season since their formation, the same season they lost their single game in the playoffs. The theory that winning solves just about everything was never tested because they simply didn't win from the very beginning. Starting from the 2nd half of the 2012-2013 season, they've been changing that, but fans are only going to come back slowly, and only if they show some level of consistency. Your theory that it has to do with city population just doesn't match the reality of sports. The Clippers consistently win, are not a college team, and have one of the top attendance records in the minor-leagues nationwide.

It's the only pro game in town with zero competition. They never draw well and really haven't during their 14-15 year existence.

No offense, but the Clippers are Cleveland's AAA farm team. While I'm glad they sell decently and that the team is good (which is good for the Indians), a sell out is 10,000 people and you can get in the park for less than $5. You can sit behind home plate for $20. You can't sit in the bleachers for $20 in most MLB venues. You also can't see them on TV. Therefore, this really isn't a ringing endorsement of market support.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by American Luxury

Has anyone ever tried to figure out what Cincinnati and Cleveland's population would be if they had the same land area as Columbus?

Many times. The simplest way is to just multiply population density by land area. Another comparison would be the resident county.

Columbus: 217.2 sq mi., 3,624 per sq mi.
Cleveland: 77.7 sq mi., 5,107 per sq mi.
Cincinnati: 78 sq mi., 3,810 per sq mi.

Franklin County: 532 sq mi., 1.16 million, 2186 per sq mi.
Cuyahoga County: 457 sq mi., 1.26 million, 2800 per sq mi.
Hamilton County: 406 sq mi., 0.804 million, 1977 per sq mi.

Any way you look at it, Cleveland has the highest population density in both the city proper and the resident county and by a fairly wide margin. Cuyahoga County: 75 less sq mi., 100k more people.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by immersedincincy

That's what's so stupid, is that some bureaucrat has to decide whether or not our region is combined when it already qualifies to be. You admitted that. I'm sure there's no real impetus on Columbus' part for any officially recognized combinations to happen and I suspect there's been some political favors passed around to make sure it doesn't ever. Here's one thing I can say: it will be cold day in hell before the Columbus metro sprawl government passes any light rail or streetcar measures. There are too many car dependent conservatives in the burbs not understanding the benefits of rail. Just another instance of bigger is not always better.

I admitted what? There is no evidence either way that it's "some bureaucrat" deciding anything.

And you realize that Cincinnati already has the state's largest MSA, right? Columbus officials want to prevent something that's already true and has been true for the entire history of metro designations? Why does this always devolve into conspiracy theories?

What does light rail have to do with this discussion?

[jbcmh81]

[quote=Cleveland_Collector;36134810]

Well, first off, DC has the Redskins. Sacramento is small (by CA standards) and
situated quite close (less than 50 miles from outer rings, probably less than 30
in some places) to the SF Bay area where 2 franchises already reside. Orlando
and Tampa, same difference. The only real anomaly is LA (which happens to have
5 other pro teams). Within 5 years, they will have an NFL team relocate there.
It won't be the Browns.

DC has the Redskins? Wrong Washington. And the point was that there are equal or larger markets than Cleveland that currently don't have teams.

Well, your figures are mostly skewed severely or flat out wrong (as pointed
out above). Cleveland's media market is also growing and has kept reasonable
pace for at least the past decade.

How does a market with shrinking population increase its market standing relative to places that are growing? That seems very counterintuitive.

Your own numbers show that CBus has annexed a substantial amount of land during
each decade and that it's largest numeric gains in population occurred when it
annexed the most land. C'mon man, get over it. Columbus' major growth happened
during that time.

I'll get over it when you can answer how population has grown faster each of the last 3 decades with significantly reduced annexation than during 2/3rds of the 1950-1980 high annexation period.

It's quite simple really: Columbus gets to count the increase in population for
which in Cleveland is known as Westlake, Avon, Broadview Hts., etc.

So what you're saying is that Columbus is growing largely within its existing boundaries. See, that wasn't so hard.

Columbus has largely already done it. All Cleveland would have to do is annex
maybe 6-8 suburbs (which won't happen any time soon).

Because 217 square miles within 3 counties equals 544 square miles in 1?

I've already demonstrated how that is clearly not the case. All you really have
to do is compare the main county population and density. But, if you want to
compare 12 on 12, go right ahead.

12 of what??

12 counties is a very "compact" metro? LOL. It doesn't even beat the
ridiculously small, 5 county area that Cleveland is allowed to have by the
idiotic pencil pushers who draw this stuff up.

The Columbus metro has 12 counties? This is news. I'm counting 8. Oh wait, you're thinking of the CSA. Cleveland's has 13.

They've never drawn well and are constantly in the discussion of contraction.
Population and market size may not be the complete reason, but it has very much
to do with it. It always does. The bigger the market, the better the media
revenue.

Where have they been in the discussion for contraction? You're trying way too hard.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

Exactly.. I don't understand why he doesn't accept cbus is a small market. 12 counties and your still third in population of the 3c's ?? compared to 5 counties counted in Cleveland metro?? And for the record my Columbus friends think a lot of our suburbs are cleveland.(shaker,Garfield, parma, etc. Etc) and they comment how our Cleveland suburbs have more character and much more urban than cbus proper.. And these are comments from die hard OSU/Columbus residents.. Ps- and they were totally blown away with what was happening in DT Cleveland and Edgewater Thurs parties. .

First, Columbus has a smaller media market. I never stated otherwise. The discussion on sports teams, at least on my end, was where those markets are heading and what would be the case in a hypothetical situation.

Second, the Columbus metro does not have 12 counties. Is it really that hard to check your facts before posting something? Columbus metro: 8 counties. Columbus CSA: 12. Cleveland metro: 5. Cleveland CSA: 13. All of NEO includes 16 counties.

And finally, are we really going to play this weird 5th grade game where we're relaying insults through anecdotes? What prevents me from saying something like, "My friends always say Cleveland sucks and is so ghetto!!" Nothing, and it would be equally pointless and immature.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by American Luxury

Has anyone ever tried to figure out what Cincinnati and Cleveland's population would be if they had the same land area as Columbus?

The census does this exact thing, but you won't find anyone here who accepts the numbers. There's always an excuse, i.e. "But there's a lake!" or "But there are hills!" or "Look at light pollution satellite photos!!" You will just never find any agreement on this.