Which of the three C's do you think will be the most dominant power in all of Ohio by 2050? (Columbus: best city, crime rates)

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Many times. The simplest way is to just multiply population density by land area. Another comparison would be the resident county.

Columbus: 217.2 sq mi., 3,624 per sq mi.
Cleveland: 77.7 sq mi., 5,107 per sq mi.
Cincinnati: 78 sq mi., 3,810 per sq mi.

Franklin County: 532 sq mi., 1.16 million, 2186 per sq mi.
Cuyahoga County: 457 sq mi., 1.26 million, 2800 per sq mi.
Hamilton County: 406 sq mi., 0.804 million, 1977 per sq mi.

Any way you look at it, Cleveland has the highest population density in both the city proper and the resident county and by a fairly wide margin. Cuyahoga County: 75 less sq mi., 100k more people.

What do the county sizes have to do with equating population in the city in the same area size? Again, there are *REAL* population figures that give population per area size. We don't have to guess. It's there.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Many times. The simplest way is to just multiply population density by land area. Another comparison would be the resident county.

Columbus: 217.2 sq mi., 3,624 per sq mi.
Cleveland: 77.7 sq mi., 5,107 per sq mi.
Cincinnati: 78 sq mi., 3,810 per sq mi.

Franklin County: 532 sq mi., 1.16 million, 2186 per sq mi.
Cuyahoga County: 457 sq mi., 1.26 million, 2800 per sq mi.
Hamilton County: 406 sq mi., 0.804 million, 1977 per sq mi.

Any way you look at it, Cleveland has the highest population density in both the city proper and the resident county and by a fairly wide margin. Cuyahoga County: 75 less sq mi., 100k more people.

I also just noticed something else. You're using the 2013 Cuyahoga County population, but the 2010 population for Franklin. Not sure why. In 2013, Cuyahoga had 1,263,154 and Franklin had 1,212,263, a difference a year ago of just 50,891. Franklin grew by that much +15,000 2010-2013, so you do the math on how long it's going to take to be larger. The actual 2013 densities for the 3 counties would be:

Cuyahoga: 2762.8
Franklin: 2277.8
Hamilton: 1982.1

You can also do the math on how long the Cuyahoga stays the most dense, despite having 75 less square miles.

[chet_kinkaid]

since the inaugural season the blue jackets are around 18 in the nhl avg attendance when all those years are counted.The Indians are dead last in MLB..even Pittsburgh has outdrawn Cleveland,and Pittsburgh is notorious for being the worse baseball city in the major leagues.I have been to many bengals games at PBS..that we're empty..a bad football market.The reds have always drawn well..outstanding baseball market.And the browns are always supported.The most expensive ticket in ohio..and biggest spectacle by a wide margin is osu football..although my cavs might take that honor this season..I am so excited...Columbus has the highest population density I believe 5,10,15 miles from city center..and the fastest growing..It's basically keeping ohio afloat..I hope Cleveland especially can turn things around and become a growing expanding market again..

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid

since the inaugural season the blue jackets are around 18 in the nhl avg attendance when all those years are counted.The Indians are dead last in MLB..even Pittsburgh has outdrawn Cleveland,and Pittsburgh is notorious for being the worse baseball city in the major leagues.I have been to many bengals games at PBS..that we're empty..a bad football market.The reds have always drawn well..outstanding baseball market.And the browns are always supported.The most expensive ticket in ohio..and biggest spectacle by a wide margin is osu football..although my cavs might take that honor this season..I am so excited...Columbus has the highest population density I believe 5,10,15 miles from city center..and the fastest growing..It's basically keeping ohio afloat..I hope Cleveland especially can turn things around and become a growing expanding market again..

Claiming that any fans are the worst of anything and not mentioning Miami afterwards is always going to be false. Miami is simultaneously the worst baseball, football, hockey, and basketball city in the country. Hands down.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid

since the inaugural season the blue jackets are around 18 in the nhl avg attendance when all those years are counted.The Indians are dead last in MLB..even Pittsburgh has outdrawn Cleveland,and Pittsburgh is notorious for being the worse baseball city in the major leagues.I have been to many bengals games at PBS..that we're empty..a bad football market.The reds have always drawn well..outstanding baseball market.And the browns are always supported.The most expensive ticket in ohio..and biggest spectacle by a wide margin is osu football..although my cavs might take that honor this season..I am so excited...Columbus has the highest population density I believe 5,10,15 miles from city center..and the fastest growing..It's basically keeping ohio afloat..I hope Cleveland especially can turn things around and become a growing expanding market again..

CBJ had some higher attendance in the beginning years. They were 27/30 in attendance for their playoff season last year. In fact, this is usually where they've been over the last 7ish years or so. If you look at the percentage of seats they sell (since all arenas are different sizes) that drops them to 28/30, just behind the hockey powerhouses of Florida and Carolina. Just above Arizona and Dallas. This is hardly anything to be proud of. Cbus isn't really a hockey town. Maybe next year if the CBJ continue their success, we'll see that change, but I see no reason to expect that to happen yet.

Indians meanwhile sold out 455 consecutive games. Attendance at Tribe games has been pathetic most years since then, but this shouldn't be forgotten. THis sell out streak still is the true record in baseball (not counting the Red Sox phony streak that ended last season).

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Claiming that any fans are the worst of anything and not mentioning Miami afterwards is always going to be false. Miami is simultaneously the worst baseball, football, hockey, and basketball city in the country. Hands down.

I was going to say this too. Cleveland is nowhere near as bad. No Ohio city is.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

CBJ had some higher attendance in the beginning years. They were 27/30 in attendance for their playoff season last year. In fact, this is usually where they've been over the last 7ish years or so. If you look at the percentage of seats they sell (since all arenas are different sizes) that drops them to 28/30, just behind the hockey powerhouses of Florida and Carolina. Just above Arizona and Dallas. This is hardly anything to be proud of. Cbus isn't really a hockey town. Maybe next year if the CBJ continue their success, we'll see that change, but I see no reason to expect that to happen yet.

Indians meanwhile sold out 455 consecutive games. Attendance at Tribe games has been pathetic most years since then, but this shouldn't be forgotten. THis sell out streak still is the true record in baseball (not counting the Red Sox phony streak that ended last season).

If they continue to be more successful and make the playoffs, combined with the upcoming All-Star stuff, there is no reason to expect that attendance will stay near the bottom. Season ticket sales are already improving from where they've historically been.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

I was going to say this too. Cleveland is nowhere near as bad. No Ohio city is.

Agreed. Ohio cities are some of the best sports places in the country. Nothing compares to an OSU game in Cbus. Cincinnati takes baseball pretty seriously, even in off years (I wish Tribe fans did this too, but they don't). Browns football is probably the 2nd best football experience after OSU, and the Cavs were really exciting with Lebron before. This year coming up is going to be crazy. Plus, pretty much every town in Ohio goes nuts for high school football too.

[averysgore]

I'm hoping that all three will be dynamic cities who have cleaned up their crime, have strong neighborhoods again, and will have tons of things to do on every corner. All three are sure moving in that direction now.

I know Cleveland best, and I'll give it the slight edge, just because it feels bigger and denser, though I can see a scenario where Columbus comes out on top. I doubt that Cincinnati could surpass both of the above, though it could hold its own as a fine city anyway.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid

since the inaugural season the blue jackets are around 18 in the nhl avg attendance when all those years are counted.The Indians are dead last in MLB..even Pittsburgh has outdrawn Cleveland,and Pittsburgh is notorious for being the worse baseball city in the major leagues.I have been to many bengals games at PBS..that we're empty..a bad football market.The reds have always drawn well..outstanding baseball market.And the browns are always supported.The most expensive ticket in ohio..and biggest spectacle by a wide margin is osu football..although my cavs might take that honor this season..I am so excited...Columbus has the highest population density I believe 5,10,15 miles from city center..and the fastest growing..It's basically keeping ohio afloat..I hope Cleveland especially can turn things around and become a growing expanding market again..

There is so much wrong in your statement that it really doesn't warrant a dismantling. I'll just leave you with a question to chew on: How does a sparsely populated (by comparison) city-metro which ranks 3rd in its contribution to the state's GDP (GSP) keep the state "afloat" while the one that ranks first and is responsible for 40% of the GSP does not? I'll give you a hint, it doesn't.