Which of the three C's do you think will be the most dominant power in all of Ohio by 2050? (Columbus: credit, hotel)
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If Columbus continues to grow as it is now, it's only a matter of time before it reaches or surpasses the cultural institutions found in the other 2-Cs. More people means more demand for such amenities, and in general, more money to spend on them. However, it might not get the *same* amenities. I don't think, for example, that demand for a world-class orchestra is quite the same now as it was 50 years ago. Even the US' largest cities struggle to support them today. As to what Columbus might gain otherwise, I don't know.
I'm actually curious what you think those cultural institutions will be. As best as I can tell right now, the city's fashion design and Franklin Park Conservatory (and the design of Columbus parks in general), are about all that Columbus has on the other two C's culturally. As per our earlier conversation, I could see a highly esteemed fashion week developing, but we'd need to see more houses opening up shop and sticking rather than using the city as a stepping stone to NYC. There's not much to work with otherwise when it comes to the kind of cultural capital that can create a separation or to catch up in the next decade or two. Simply having people, money and demand doesn't magically create cultural institutions, as art and culture development always precedes the widespread commercial appeal of it. All the money and people will only buy what's become popular elsewhere first.
Also, outside of NYC's Met Opera Orchestra, the country's largest city orchestras are all pretty sound financially, it's middle tier and below symphonies that are on shaky ground. The Met Opera has been in the news lately for their mismanagement, so it's no surprise that the orchestra's also in a fix.
I'm actually curious what you think those cultural institutions will be. As best as I can tell right now, the city's fashion design and Franklin Park Conservatory (and the design of Columbus parks in general), are about all that Columbus has on the other two C's culturally. As per our earlier conversation, I could see a highly esteemed fashion week developing, but we'd need to see more houses opening up shop and sticking rather than using the city as a stepping stone to NYC. There's not much to work with otherwise when it comes to the kind of cultural capital that can create a separation or to catch up in the next decade or two. Simply having people, money and demand doesn't magically create cultural institutions, as art and culture development always precedes the widespread commercial appeal of it. All the money and people will only buy what's become popular elsewhere first.
Also, outside of NYC's Met Opera Orchestra, the country's largest city orchestras are all pretty sound financially, it's middle tier and below symphonies that are on shaky ground. The Met Opera has been in the news lately for their mismanagement, so it's no surprise that the orchestra's also in a fix.
Well, we're talking about 2050, not a decade from now. Columbus is not likely to catch up anytime in the next decade or so. And given ever-changing tastes, technology, etc., it's pretty hard to imagine what may pop up in the next 40 or so years, so I really couldn't say what might be new in this regard. Certainly, the city could improve quite a bit when it comes to the more traditional cultural amenities like galleries and orchestras, and very likely will over time. But we're also not talking about the same time period. When Cleveland and Cincinnati gained those things, there was a different standard and expectation for city culture, and there was a lot of old money to pay for them. Those conditions don't exactly exist anymore, so they'll have to evolve in other ways, especially in Columbus where old money just isn't around. Not that long ago, OSU announced that it wanted to create a performance arts complex along High Street. I'm not sure of the time frame that is supposed to happen, but it would be one of the most significant investments in that category for the city in a long time. So perhaps that is one way the city will gain them, through public/private institutions. In any case, I suspect that, when it comes to the opinions of Columbus' northern and southern neighbors, it will never be equal no matter what it gains. You allude to that opinion yourself. It's kind of a no-win scenario and will take outside media to grow that reputation, as it certainly isn't coming from inside the state.
Between Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati and I do mean their entire metropolitan/combined statistical areas included and all.
It's a pretty self-explanatory question. Which of the three cities/metropolitan areas do you think will be the face of Ohio by mid-century?
As in will be the most populous area, the most influential area, attracting the most people from outside of Ohio, culturally and economically influence the state most?
Irrelevant.
Let's throw out the whole "entire metropolitan/statistical" nonsense out the window, that represents the exodus that is killing the city in question as people move further out. The city loses mostly high income residents, the tax base erodes, and there are not the resources available to push back against the decline. Businesses leave, corporate headquarters are relocated, the urban decay snowballs due to budget shortfalls.
The winner will be who ever can revitalize it's urban core, make their neighborhoods liveable, control crime and make the streets safe, restore infrastructure, keep small businesses alive and make the city a place people will want to move to and not escape from. Failure to act will leave the big cities looking like a wasteland with boarded up houses and empty store fronts by 2050.
Let's throw out the whole "entire metropolitan/statistical" nonsense out the window, that represents the exodus that is killing the city in question as people move further out. The city loses mostly high income residents, the tax base erodes, and there are not the resources available to push back against the decline. Businesses leave, corporate headquarters are relocated, the urban decay snowballs due to budget shortfalls.
The winner will be who ever can revitalize it's urban core, make their neighborhoods liveable, control crime and make the streets safe, restore infrastructure, keep small businesses alive and make the city a place people will want to move to and not escape from. Failure to act will leave the big cities looking like a wasteland with boarded up houses and empty store fronts by 2050.
Cleveland is definitely leading the 3c's in regards to revitalization of its downtown urban core.
Cleveland is definitely leading the 3c's in regards to revitalization of its downtown urban core.
I am hoping all 3 will recognize the issues and take immediate action, there are things being done in Cincinnati, 3CDC is doing a lot of good in Over The Rhine, Oakley and Hyde Park are desireable areas, Mount Adams is the snooty section, Avondale, Evanston, Price Hill, E. Walnut Hills, Westwood etc. are still ghetto, Queensgate, Camp Washington and South Fairmont are war zones. Crime in the UC area is so bad south of campus a lot of parents won't send their kids there.
Another issue I did not mention in my previous post is schools, they will need to be greatly improved to keep residents from fleeing to outlying small towns. A lot of the downtown workforce live 30 miles away and that is not good for the city at all.
You seem to have trouble with my posts. It was pretty simple. Columbus will likely catch up in 40 years based on organic growth in demand, based on population, economy, etc. But given how society changes, the cultural amenities may not be exactly the same as what exists in the other 2. I'm saying that cultural amenities go well beyond an orchestra or a museum, and who knows what they might include mid-century. If you don't understand that, I really can't help you.
You seem to have trouble with my posts. It was pretty simple. Columbus will likely catch up in 40 years based on organic growth in demand, based on population, economy, etc. But given how society changes, the cultural amenities may not be exactly the same as what exists in the other 2. I'm saying that cultural amenities go well beyond an orchestra or a museum, and who knows what they might include mid-century. If you don't understand that, I really can't help you.
Who knows, maybe Columbus will become a center of tattoo parlors by 2050 given the way our culture is going. What a shame that classical music and museums will become a thing of the past.
What do you consider to be cultural amenities beyond an orchestra, museum, theater and arts in general?
Thankfully the Europeans appreciate the Cleveland Orchestra.
Who knows, maybe Columbus will become a center of tattoo parlors by 2050 given the way our culture is going. What a shame that classical music and museums will become a thing of the past.
What do you consider to be cultural amenities beyond an orchestra, museum, theater and arts in general?
Thankfully the Europeans appreciate the Cleveland Orchestra.
Americans appreciate the Cleveland Orchestra too, believe me, albeit many of us would like it if they became more of an American orchestra rather than one that focuses so much on dead Austrians and Germans.
Classical music and orchestras have been rumored to be dead or dying for at least a century, but they won't, in the same way that Shakespeare's plays will never stop getting performed. Both will remain a part of culture 35 years from now. As always, they will remain somewhat elitist and removed from popular culture, but they will still exist and thrive in their niche. With rare exceptions, such as video games, technology doesn't beget new culture, it just changes the way we experience existing culture. So electronics will change the way we listen to music and alters the instrumentation, but the music itself remains essentially the same, with only minor changes according to the aesthetics of the time. Museums too, will remain important cultural institutions 40 years from now. Are we really going to stop looking at and appreciating art? No.
I also wish we could remove the idea that culture is born only out of philanthropic largesse. Symphonies and museums are large old money retainers, but they are not the entirety of culture and aren't where it starts. New art, new music are usually created on a much smaller and cheaper scale before they reach the museum/symphony stage, and both Cleveland and Cincinnati have much more nationally prominent new arts (Cleveland's MOCA and the CAC in Cincy) and new music (NEO SonicFest or MusicNow) scenes. Thirty years from now, it's these institutions and organizations that will still be feeding the culture of their cities, not some vague dream of an unidentified cultural institution yet to be invented/discovered.
Who knows, maybe Columbus will become a center of tattoo parlors by 2050 given the way our culture is going. What a shame that classical music and museums will become a thing of the past.
What do you consider to be cultural amenities beyond an orchestra, museum, theater and arts in general?
Thankfully the Europeans appreciate the Cleveland Orchestra.
I'm not so sure they'll become a thing of the past, just their dominance in the cultural scene may not be as great as it is now or used to be. As for what might take their place, I really don't know. Technology and cultural interests change so fast now that it might be something none of us can even imagine.
Americans appreciate the Cleveland Orchestra too, believe me, albeit many of us would like it if they became more of an American orchestra rather than one that focuses so much on dead Austrians and Germans.
Classical music and orchestras have been rumored to be dead or dying for at least a century, but they won't, in the same way that Shakespeare's plays will never stop getting performed. Both will remain a part of culture 35 years from now. As always, they will remain somewhat elitist and removed from popular culture, but they will still exist and thrive in their niche. With rare exceptions, such as video games, technology doesn't beget new culture, it just changes the way we experience existing culture. So electronics will change the way we listen to music and alters the instrumentation, but the music itself remains essentially the same, with only minor changes according to the aesthetics of the time. Museums too, will remain important cultural institutions 40 years from now. Are we really going to stop looking at and appreciating art? No.
I also wish we could remove the idea that culture is born only out of philanthropic largesse. Symphonies and museums are large old money retainers, but they are not the entirety of culture and aren't where it starts. New art, new music are usually created on a much smaller and cheaper scale before they reach the museum/symphony stage, and both Cleveland and Cincinnati have much more nationally prominent new arts (Cleveland's MOCA and the CAC in Cincy) and new music (NEO SonicFest or MusicNow) scenes. Thirty years from now, it's these institutions and organizations that will still be feeding the culture of their cities, not some vague dream of an unidentified cultural institution yet to be invented/discovered.
I think you're being far too limiting with your definition of what makes culture and what might change it. What exists now will always be, just perhaps more technologically advanced, is not necessarily true. There are plenty of cultural institutions and themes that have long since died out, not only in the mainstream, but in the niche markets. Do I think people will stop appreciating art and music? Of course not. But to say that nothing new could be added to the spectrum of culture is just silly. Columbus will likely never have a world-class traditional art museum. But it certainly has the ability to gain something world-class that uses technology in new ways to appreciate art.
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