Cincinnati vs Cleveland

[WRnative]

Forbes: Cleveland is America's hottest city.

Cleveland is on a roll which may create transformative momentum, although I doubt the region really wants to host an Olympics, especially after breathing a sigh of relief following the completion of the Republican National Convention without an incident.

Forbes Welcome

However, thinking about it, Cleveland might welcome the Olympics if it would finance a replacement for the NFL FirstEnergy Stadium and free up the stadium's valuable lakefront footprint for development. It also might finance the development of substantial housing in areas such as Hough.

[1watertiger]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Do people actually use CSAs for anything other than in these types of threads?

Here are my thoughts on the best measurements to use for comparisons (depending on what you're trying to measure, the order can change):
1. Urbanized area
2. Distance from Downtown
3. Metro area
4. City limits

Big gap.

5. CSA

CSAs are just too large to be useful in comparing core areas. Oh, and CSA does NOT stand for "metropolitan area", so it's factually incorrect to say "metropolitan Cleveland" is 3.5 million. It stands for "combined statistical area".

Here is the population ranking order for all 5.

Urbanized Area 2015- This shows continuous connected development.
Cleveland: 1,766,653
Cincinnati: 1,657,840
Columbus: 1,477,852
Change since 2012
Columbus: +75,431
Cincinnati: +21,161
Cleveland: -973

Distance from Downtown 2010- This gives population totals for the same square mile areas out from the center of any city, so it standardizes the different city sizes. Only measured during the census.
Population at 78.5 square miles in 2010-roughly the size of Cincinnati/Cleveland
Columbus: 404,642
Cincinnati: 400,254
Cleveland: 361,475
Change since 2000
Columbus: -7,924
Cincinnati: -38,698
Cleveland: -69,977
Since 2010, there have probably been some changes to these negative numbers.
Population at 201 square miles in 2010-roughly the size of Columbus (or as close as the measurements get)
Columbus: 795,666
Cleveland: 719,218
Cincinnati: 685,958
Change since 2000
Columbus: +23,438
Cincinnati: -44,144
Cleveland: -110,030

Metropolitan Area 2015- The collection of counties that share strong connections with the core city.
Cincinnati: 2,157,719
Cleveland: 2,060,810
Columbus: 2,021,632
Change since 2010
Columbus: +119,658
Cincinnati: +43,139
Cleveland: -16,430

City Limits 2015
Columbus: 850,106
Cleveland: 388,072
Cincinnati: 298,550
Change since 2010
Columbus: +62,173
Cincinnati: +1,607
Cleveland: -8,743

CSA 2015- Collection of multiple micro and metropolitan areas in a region.
Cleveland: 3,493,956
Columbus: 2,424,831
Cincinnati: 2,216,735
Change since 2010
Columbus: +116,322
Cincinnati: +42,625
Cleveland: -22,050


So they all lead depending on which measurement you use, but this is how I view the order of most useful to least.

Yes its subjective. Each metro varies.
Columbus gets 10 counties for its MSA, which is very generous imo. Marion? And A couple of counties far removed and basically farm/rural.
Thats why when you add the other counties in columbus CSA there isnt much population increase.
Cleveland msa has 5 counties. Summit is excluded and so is the population of clevelands SE suburbs that have sprawled in summit. Imo not realistic. The cleveland and Cincinnati metro are undoubtedly by far the 2 most populated regions and urbanized centers of ohio. Columbus is a distand third.
And as these 3 metros grow and sprawl in the future , Cleveland and Cincinnati MSA's and CSA's will show more population increases with the addition of the Akrons,Daytons and Youngstowns.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

Yes its subjective. Each metro varies.
Columbus gets 10 counties for its MSA, which is very generous imo. Marion? And A couple of counties far removed and basically farm/rural.
Thats why when you add the other counties in columbus CSA there isnt much population increase.
Cleveland msa has 5 counties. Summit is excluded and so is the population of clevelands SE suburbs that have sprawled in summit. Imo not realistic. The cleveland and Cincinnati metro are undoubtedly by far the 2 most populated regions and urbanized centers of ohio. Columbus is a distand third.
And as these 3 metros grow and sprawl in the future , Cleveland and Cincinnati MSA's and CSA's will show more population increases with the addition of the Akrons,Daytons and Youngstowns.

Marion County isn't in the Columbus MSA, but IS in the CSA- as I said, CSAs are kind of worthless IMO. In the MSA, Perry, Hocking and Morrow are probably questionable, but they apparently have fairly strong cross-commuting with Columbus, surprisingly, which is an addition requirement. All the other 6 counties in the metro immediately border Franklin, so I think they're appropriate.
I said in another thread recently that the reason that Akron counties aren't in the Cleveland metro can only really be for 2 reasons: either they don't meet the standards for addition, or one or both sides don't want the addition to happen. Both the Cleveland and Akron folks have to agree, so it may literally be that (likely Akron) wants to remain a separate metro. This might be because the addition would make them the minor city in a similar way that Dayton would be minor if it was in the Cincinnati metro. We don't actually know which reason it is, though.

[motorman]

As this debate rambles on, just realize that the OP's first post was also his last post; he' been queried three times about his employment status, but has offered no additional information about anything. Therefore, isn't any further discussion pointless?

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by motorman

As this debate rambles on, just realize that the OP's first post was also his last post; he' been queried three times about his employment status, but has offered no additional information about anything. Therefore, isn't any further discussion pointless?

Aw, but when has that stopped anyone on this forum from debating the three C's incessantly? At least this time it's remained relatively civil.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Both the Cleveland and Akron folks have to agree, so it may literally be that (likely Akron) wants to remain a separate metro. This might be because the addition would make them the minor city in a similar way that Dayton would be minor if it was in the Cincinnati metro. We don't actually know which reason it is, though.

Interesting. Akron and Cleveland are just so close, you'd think Akron would want to latch on with Cleveland a bit, kinda raise its profile. But there is a weird resentment there too, that at least historically has been pretty undeniable. Not sure where that stands today, but my mom growing up in Canton (who now has lived in Cleveland for over 40 years) always said they would never identify as "Cleveland" in any way.

[Roanoke2]

Cleveland for me.